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moomoo22

GALS know the best parts of 300

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We've all enjoyed our Gerry Hypernews week. I saw 300 twice last week (my husband thinks I've only seen it once and I may see it in secret again tonight. He thinks I'm so ridiculous). I loved all the same parts you did...my favorites, besides buns and thigh exposure, include his yelling of the "This is Sparta" line (his teeth and lips do some kind of funny cute thing when he yells the word Sparta in particular); when he laughs by the cliffs (his eyes are so blue) and says "Well let's give them something to drink!" I also loved his sweet face when he was about to die, and when he was actually dead. I know that's terrible, but he is one fantastic looking corpse. :cunning:

Ok-the worst parts:

David W's narration. I think it was corny and melodramatic and intrusive and obvious (we march we march we march I think is how it went, went, went).

Ephialtes. I think the concept was good, but they shouldn't have made his arrival so Gollum-like. A total rip-off of LOTR if you ask me. The moment with his hand on the tree looks like it was borrowed from Andy Serkis. He was good in his moment with Leo though.

"Mi'lady." That phrase seemed so corny and unnatural-I guess because they didn't use it at any other time in the script. Even "What is it now, honey?" would have seemed more natural.

Finally, the all time cringe-worthiest point in the film:

The beheading of the young son of the Captain (what's his name, anyway?). I'm sorry. He is sweet and cute but when his head is lopped off and his body stays still for a moment, I want to giggle. I have a sick sense of humor anyway, but this was beyond cheese-a-rific. If they're gonna use CGI for the headless body, spent a couple more bucks and make it really real. I think that's kind of the low point of the film as far as sophistication. :rotflmao:

Again, I am going to see it tonight, but will enjoy the variety of the goodies and ignore the silly stuff.

Please give your input as to your highs and lows in 300.

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LOL he actually says "my lady" in the novel. I read it again right after I came home from seeing it the 3rd time today. :D

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I do agree there were moments of "cheese-dom"... not many, but the one that kind of made me roll my eyes was a moment between Leonidas and Gorgo (i can't quite remember the exchange of words)... now, i know they were following the novel, yada yada... i just think that some of the sweetness was not necessary. Spartan history states there was rarely ever a "relationship" between husband and wife. It was simply for procreation purposes... sorry to piss all over the romance part of it.... Pls don't hate me! I still think it's a great novel and movie regardless!

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This is NOT Trixie, it's Miklyn and I have to completely disagree with you. I am not going to say that every part of the movie was perfect but I can say I like a lot more things about the movie than just Gerry's looks.

As for David narration it was meant to be there because the whole point was his character was telling the story to the men a year later that is why you hear him periodically throughout the movie.

There is a whole group of us that talked after the movie that absolutely loved when he said " My Lady" it was sincere and you could see his heart in that moment. He was having to be tough in that moment because he knew he would never see his wife or son again.

Could the graphics been better at the beheading, maybe, but at that point we were so caught up in the movie that we didn't look at the graphics.

I want to say I am not attacking I am just stating what a group of us taked about after the movie.

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Guest greyeyegoddess

It's kind of hard to say 'so and so' was bad, if it followed the novel. I guess then you'd have to say that it was the fault of the novel, or the delivery. Either way.

Hmmm...what didn't I like?

One line that bothers me is when Leonidas says something like, "Give them nothing, but take from them everything!" I guess I have to be a Spartan to understand that. You're not going to give a big speech in the middle of war, so the shorter, the sweeter. Cheese factor weighs in when you can't give a big speech, which I really don't care for unless I'm watching or reading Shakespeare.

I liked Delios' narrative. To me, it kept the story going, filling in the parts where Spartans couldn't fill in. I also like David's voice.

Ephialtes' character is exactly like that in the book. So, until there was a concept of Gollum in the 90's or 80's, whenever the book 300 was created, Ephialtes was already created as such. He had to look a certain way, because in order to rejected by the Spartans, he had to be grotesque and misshaped.

The sweetness wasn't necessary if the story was going to be historically accurate. Since it was based on the graphic novel, although there wasn't any sweetness in the book, I actually like the addition of more of a Queenly part and whatever humanistic flavor Zack was going with the movie. In fact, I liked Zack's human approach against Frank's characterizations. That's where Gerry shined.

Crap! This was supposed to be what I didn't like.

Ok, it was too short! I could have sat for another 30 minutes. And I hate the fact that I don't know when the dvd is going to be out!

~alice

:music:

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It' Miklyn again and Alice I have to say I loved what you had to say.

I agree I could have sat there longer and it is killing me not knowing when the dvd is coming out.

I know the Spartans were not the most romantic guys but I loved the fact that Zach added more to the relationship between Leonidas and Gorga.

Cassie and I were talking about how we loved Delios and I liked how he kept the movie going at parts. Especially at the end when he explained why he dropped his helmet and shield.

My biggest complaint would have to be - you hear Lena, Gerry and Zach talk so much about the love scene and we get all excited to see and it was way way to short. I hope they put a longer version on a dvd that comes out.

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It had its cheesy parts but I loved it. I loved Dilios' narrative. I think it was mainly because I love David Wenham but hey...LOL It went almost exactly by the novel word for word 'cept for the Queen. I think the movie was too short as well. Even today after my 3rd time, I didnt wanna get up and go home.

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I loved the narration as a dramatic device... for me, it added to the drama and the humanity. David's voice got on my nerves though, and I'm not sure why.

I did not care for the large beasts, and actually want to laugh every time that rhinoceros monster comes bounding toward the 300. I know it's supposed to look dangerous, but it appears too fluffy, and the gigantic body looks weightless in the way it moves.

I also felt the beheading scene was a bit too clean... do bodies really remain erect after the head's been sliced off?

Oh, and I cannot stand that saw armed executioner.... something right out of Hell Raiser.

But over all... I loved the film, and don't ask me to find fault with anything Gerry does in the movie... it's much too soon for me to pull myself out of this Gerry/Leonidas induced happy fog!

(by the way... I LOVED when he said, "milady".... absolutely melted my heart.)

Swannie

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After seeing it 8 times, and still being as exicted as I was the first time.... I can say that the only ONLY thing I would change was two things, one is a word and one is additions..

One, when he asks Dilios if he can still fight with that eye wound..and he says "the lord" the ancient greeks belive in Gods, not just one. it's semantics though but that just caught me.

And the additions, believe it or not..I would have LOVED ANOTHER BATTLE SCENE..I swear they were the mosty lyrically fluid battle scenes I have ever seen..it was the way they did it.

A perfect example is Rome this week, it was brutal and short..and honestly there were much more brutal things in 300 but it didn't bother me at all.

Edited by moonglow

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I've gone back and forth with the narration. I think the concept of it was great. And the character WAS rallying the troops again for battle a year later. So re-telling the story is important. You have to think that story was told over and over for years and years in real life.

BUT - I have left the movie all three times thinking the rah-rah speech went on just a little bit too long at the end. During the rest of the movie it was fine but at the end it just seemed to drag a bit.

On a personal note, I loved the relationship between Leonidas and his Queen. Whether it was true to the real Spartans, you're probably right about it not being historically accurate, moomoo. But for the purposes of the movie, I think it showed a depth to these characters that we wouldn't have seen otherwise. These men were fighting for Sparta. But Sparta wasn't just a location. It was the home of their wives, sons, daughters, mothers and fathers, their very way of life. I think we see that reflected with the way Leonidas thought of his wife in his last breath.

I could have lived without the giant beasts and the ogre-type character. I think they took a bit of the emphasis away from the battle the Spartans were fighting. However, for me I justify their presence by thinking that in the re-telling of the story over the years, there would bound to be exaggerations and this would be an example of that. A true story becoming a legend and then eventually moving toward being told as a myth.

I dunno. Just my thoughts!

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I LOVE THE "MY LADY" LINES.

Let their be no mistake about that. :rose:

Having read the graphic novel beforehand, and seeing the sterile exchange there, there's SO much more behind it when acted out, specifically by Lena and Gerry.

And hey, no picking on David... *puts arm around Dilios* ;) I love that actor!

Whether or not the relationship of husbands and wives were historically accurate or inaccurate (oh, I could go on for HOURS about that subject...currently studying New Historicism as it were...looking forward to writing some critics), I completely agree with Jill, it was essential to the story. Zack didn't set out to make a "historically accurate" piece anyhow...

~Mel

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History-for the most part --has been written & recorded by men & naturally with that comes history that is biased by their perspective, and generally accepted as factual. If women had written history with their perspective & experiences we might get an entirely different picture of how men & women related to each other. There have been ancient documents & letters found from those times where the men have spoken lovingly & passionately to their wives & children & vice versa! To suggest that men & women didn't relate to each other in a more basic & loving manner is just too absurd! Only a guy would think of something like that! But we can't go around muddling up history with a little romance, can we. I also loved the My Lady part--yes it stood out, but it also touched your heart! Mine anyway! The narration was good--what I could hear of it--the guy next to me would fidget with his water bottle during the quieter scenes!!!!!GGRRRRR!

Debrasue

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Ok, I have to chime in on this one! :p

Because I read the graphic novel before seeing the movie, the lines they spoke did not bother me. They were almost verbatim out of the novel, including the narration by Dilios. I agree that David Wenham's voice was a bit out of tone, but he was trying to put on an accent that would cover his Australian accent and it just mixed into something weird. :confused:

As was stated earlier, Ephialtes is exactly as he is depicted in the novel, so there is no ripping off of LOTR. He hides in the shadows and follows the Spartans and is as deformed in the novel as he is in the movie.

The Queen's role was almost non existent in the novel. Zack gave her character a more prominent role in the movie and it worked very well. Thank goodness he did, if he didn't increase her part and that of the counsel, the movie would have been even shorter. :(

I admit the creatures were a bit 'over the top' but I think Zack put those in for the fanboys that dig that sort of thing in comic books. I could have done without them but I think the deformed boxer looking creature that kicked King Leo around wasn't bad. It made sense that only a giant beast like man could get the best of King Leo. Also, they had to explain how the King got that scar over his eye somehow! :D

The beheading of Astinos is a good scene because they used his real body and CG'd his head off, but I agree, the head they used was too fake looking. Does a body actually stay erect when the head is loped off? I don't really know, but it does in fantasy type movies! :p

The only scenes that bugged me where the wheat field scenes. Specifically the end scenes when the King is thinking of his Queen one last time and she is laying in the wheat field. Also when the Queen is waiting in the wheat fields and Dilios gives her the necklace, then the son comes running up to hug her. They just reminded me too much of Gladiator. I would have preferred if they stayed away from anything that could bring a reference to that movie because critics would say they were ripping it off.

But I guess my biggest and only real complaint is that the movie is too SHORT!!! It should have been at least 1/2 hour longer. I too would have liked to have seen 1 more battle scene. They were done so beautifully they were fascinating to watch. And they could have extended the love scene alittle more too. :cunning:

All in all, it is an AWESOME movie! Zack Snyder(and Gerry too) have created a standard that other movies of this type are going to be held to in the future! :goodjob2:

Edited by Scorpio613

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I only saw the movie once and on a lousy screen at that but I intend to remedy that this week! I guess the one thing I really didn't like would have been the addition of the fake-looking animals. I know they were supposed to look like that but I didn't care for it! As for My Lady...THUD! Although I know a lot of you loved the fight scenes...I loved the scenes with the King and his Queen... I don't mean the sex scene either...Well I do mean that one too but not just that one! I guess it's just the romantic in me... Still in Phantom world I guess. I have to say that I liked the bits of humor that were thrown in here and there too...and how about the apple chomping scene?? OMG I loved that!

:cunning: Fran

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Gorgo...now there's a woman I would follow to the ends of the earth! There wasn't much I didn't like about the movie. I read from history that men would not be allowed to live with their wives until they were 30. They bonded together until then to become the awesome fighting warriors they were.

I just melt when he say milady...in public they adddressed one another very formally and this was about as intimate as they got.

I understand the beasts...they were symbols of all the might the Persian army threw at the Spartans and still could not defeat them until a traitor gave them away.

Every time I go I now concentrate on Leo's eyes and emotions. I've seen it 6 times now and today the theater was packed at the 12:00 showing with as many women as men.

:claphands: :inlove: :D

Edited by Dragon Slayer

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Hey, everybody...I said WORST parts (be honest, you know there were some) and didn't mean everyone to jump in and start defending the whole movie!

I loved it too, but again, there were parts my husband is going to cringe at when I make him see the movie (out on DVD on August 1st, BTW-that's the date so far.) He's going to DIE laughing at the Astenos (spelling?) death scene. And, hey, isn't the inevitable death pretty much a given when Astenos stands still for 5 minutes and smiles at his father and the whole right side of the screen is whited out and foggy? Gee, is something bad about to happen? :bonk:

I know the movie was based on Frank Miller-I've got that down by now, ya'll-its just that some of the silliest creatures (ie Billy Goat playing the cello) were so distracting from the storyline that it took me out of the "mood" of the moment, made me look at my daughter in the dark and giggle.

Also, there is that beginning marching scene and one of the Spartans in the front (down to the right) is playing a double ended flute-recorder thingie. Does anyone know what that's called? Anyway, if you are going to throw that into the shot do it again later so it actually has meaning instead of just looking silleeee. :bonk:

Ok, so does everyone hear me? I LOVED this movie, I WILL be buying this "blood ballet," but I think I'm allowed to pick it apart a little bit. No offense to anyone involved in the production (in the 1/1000000 chance they happen to read it). They are not embarrassed by the film at all considering what they've now got in their bank accounts! :D

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Guest greyeyegoddess

:funnyabove: Nope, I saw that too...

Except for the one line that I still didn't get, it didn't bother me with all those other things, because I expected them. I would have been more surprised if the monsters weren't there, because then it wouldn't have been a movie about Frank's works. It didn't bother me. And for the head, well, I cried more than I laughed, but this movie made me cry at various place. Don't take this wrong, but did you get to read the comic books before seeing the movie? I know fans who don't read books before the movie is out, in order to keep the movie fresh, so if that was the case, not a problem.

Maybe I'm just prejudice or maybe it's accepting the weird or appreciating Zack's work. I'm sure Gerry's work isn't all perfect, but I hate to say that I loved all the actors in this movie. Everyone did an absolute wonderful job.

No offense taken, but it's kind of weird to judge things in a movie that was taken from a book. I don't think Astinos' death was part of the book, but it definitely added to the emotion of the movie. I can't watch the heads chopped off though after the first viewing. Kind of like the Beowulf arm chopping scene. I don't hate it, but I can't watch them anymore.

I'm not trying to convince you. One of the pre-screenings I saw, the audience actually laughed at Gerry's moonlight scene, which wasn't part of Frank's novels. I was kind of shocked, but hey, when you get a bunch of guys who aren't comfortable or have seen it all, well, they didn't appreciate Gerry's body of work like I did. LOL!

You are most welcomed to pick apart the movie. I know fans who say that this kind of movie wasn't their thing, so I'm opened to all things. But others can be allowed to share their opinion too... :wave:

I loved the movie. Attila is my favorite of Gerry's, so 300 is right up there.

So, I want to hear, what else is there that people didn't like?

~alice

:music:

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Not to take away anyone's right to dislike or find fault with certain aspects of the movie I have to say that after 9 viewings I am hard pressed to find things I did not like. But I did come up with a few nitpicky things.

I love the concept of Dilios' narration and I love David Wenham, but sometimes his voice sounds "oh-so-British" in just the way Gerry said he DIDN't want Leonidas to sound. I think I would have preferred his natural Aussie accent, much as I preferred how much of Gerry's natural burr comes through. In the initial speech Dilios is giving as the movie opens for some reason that gesture where he holds up his hand and puts his fingers together to emphasize what he says, that bugs me and I have no idea why except it seems kind of melodramatic. I always expect to hear snickers there.

In the scene where the Queen is by the fountain and Theron brings her son I wonder what was the purpose of the long shot of the water in her hand? I expected to see maybe her imagining her husband in battle or something but it was just water.

I question the tenderness between Leonidas and his son. From the narration and description, Spartan boys were treated roughly so they would grow up to be strong Spartan warriors. When the King kisses his son on the head it warms my heart but also seems like something the King would not have done.

The Queen's vaccination scar is visible as well - and in his final death yell Gerry's fillings can be seen clearly. These are things I would have thought the CGI gurus would have fixed.

Other than that I can't find fault. I don't like the beasts much but understand their presence and I just love how Astinos stands there and doesn't flinch as the rhino is charging towards him.

As for Astinos' beheading it may be more realistic when the DVD comes out. Since Zack had to do some serious cutting on the decapitations in order to appease the WB brass there is a chance the "director's cut" will be more realistic. But for me it is fine, I don't need to see more realism in that scene - the fact that it happens breaks my heart every time I watch it.

Oh, I did think of another one - the arrows at the end look big and nasty when the archers have them poised to shoot, but when we see them in Leonidas' chest they look like slightly oversized darts with little tiny wounds - that did bug me. Make the arrows look as big and nasty when they are in his chest as they are when on the archers' bows, and those arrows would have made much bigger entrance wounds.

Didn't Dilios also refer to Xerxes as the Lord of Lords at the end? I wasn't sure that was a term that would have been used back then, even for a King who fancies himself a God, but I'm not sure.

These are all minor enough issues that they don't detract from my enjoyment of the movie and I love just about every other line and gesture and scene in the film - enough that I know that I won't stop at 9 - I'm already planning for #10.

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Hmmm...lemme see...my turn! :D

The Astinos beheading doesn't bother me at all, and in fact, the ominous white fog was certainly a premenision for the audience...they weren't hiding the fact that he was about to be killed. That scene wasn't about Astinos dying...it was about his father coming to grips with it.

About the body standing there for a few seconds before falling...we have to remember that it was in slow-motion, and also the whole concept of a chicken running around with its head cut off...if the head is suddenly decapitated from the body, it's gonna take a few moments for the muscles in the body to register the fact. (eeek, this is morbid! :bonk: )

Leonides' tenderness towards his son...it's hard for me to question it because I love it so much, so I'll dig into character development. From the first interviews with Gerry about Leonides (and after I read the graphic novel), it was apparent to me that the film Leonides would have more emotion and humanity than the Leonides of the graphic novel. In fact, as a whole the film would carry more.

Leonides' demeanor towards both his wife and son are consistent. Despite what he was put through to become the warrior he is, I have no problem believing that Leonides is simply a more tender man than his father was. And perhaps his father had moments such as that with him when he was a boy, we just didn't see it. We still see the emotion being held back indefinitely outside of the walls of his home, however.

The scene that actually has me a bit bothered...Gorgo and Theron before the council. Theron's accusations of Gorgo were, to me, so obviously orchestrated that I had a hard time believing they would believe Theron's accusations even as he almost visibly had slime dripping from him ears. I dunno...having issues reconciling that scene.

Oh! The scene with Gorgo at the fountain, looking at the water...I'm a very metaphorically-minded person, so I saw Gorgo's moment with the water as a culmination of everything she loves...her family, her people, Sparta and Greece... everything she touches, everything that sustains her, everything she is in danger of losing. That's emphasized later when she tells Theron that the 300 fight for the very water they drink.

Aaaaand I'm spent in my digging-for-meaning at the moment... :hearts:

~Mel

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Mel - I too absolutely loved that Leonidas was a more tender and loving person than Spartans would normally be thought to be. Obviously they felt deeply about their families - thus the breakdown of The Captain when his son is killed - not because he died but because he never told him he loved him best. It isn't that I didn't like those aspects of the film, in fact I think it was those moments that make the film much more female-friendly than it would have been if done strictly by Frank's book. I shouldn't have included Leonidas' tenderness towards his son as being a "worst" aspect of the film because it wasn't - it was just somewhat inconsistent with the narration about there being no room for "softness" in a Spartan warrior.

After writing about the moment at the fountain I thought more about it and figured it tied in with the whole "earth and water" that was demanded by the Persian emmisary. In that context the Queen's moment of reflection, looking into the handful of water, takes us back to that demand.

Oh, and Theron truly was a slimeball - every time I've stayed for the credits and we are clapping for the stars we always boo for Dominic West (for the character not for him personally). We don't boo for Rodrigo even though Xerxes was the "enemy" in their battles, but he wasn't nearly so vile as Theron. And I love seeing the MEN in the audience cheer for Gorgo both when she comments on "only Spartan women give birth to REAL men" and when she runs Theron through. You expect the women to love those scenes but I love that the men do as well!

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I shouldn't have included Leonidas' tenderness towards his son as being a "worst" aspect of the film because it wasn't - it was just somewhat inconsistent with the narration about there being no room for "softness" in a Spartan warrior.

That's the interesting thing about the narration vs. the actions... with Leonides' last look at Gorgo, more tenderness passes between them then could have ever been said with "Goodbye my love." As for "no room for softness," I think in this particular case, we see the product of a man being told all his life not to divulge his feelings, which is most consistent through words...so he obeys that part of him, but those other moments of tenderness find their way out through a look, or a kiss on the head.

Am I just rambling? Yes? Thought so...but I like to ramble. :D

As for Dominic West, all I have to say is I REALLY need to see him in a good guy role, because as of now, I can't stand the sight of the guy! I mean, major compliments to him as an actor, because he played the slimeball SO well!

Funny, I never thought about the comparison of Xerxes and Theron until you just pointed it out! It's true, we hate Xerxes, but it's expected, he's the bad guy, he's always been the bad guy, he lives up to his bad guy-ness! But Theron is supposed to be a loyal Spartan...that's why we hate him more! :bonk:

~Mel

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Am I the only one who noticed the smallpox vaccination on Daxos' (Andre Pleavin's) arm?

I NOTICED FOR SURE!!! I thought to myself, "Hmm. I wonder if they're going to include that as a "time reference discrepancy" in the movie books..."

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I loved this movie...I have been to the theater 3 times so far and plan on seeing it at least once more. We'll see though cause my hubby thinks I'm crazy. I loved the movie, sure there are little things that you notice as I do in every movie but I loved loved loved it. And not just because Gerry was in it. I'll admit that is why I went to see it at first but I love movies like that...kings, queens, evil, it works for me. Keeps my attention but I loved the battle scenes and wish that there could've been at least 1 more. I could've sat through at least another half hour if not more. Well that's just my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own so I thought I would throw my 2 cents in.

Dracsgirl/Amanda

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Guest greyeyegoddess

Susan and Mel, your thorough essays on this subject have been quite enlightening.

~alice

:music:

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