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POTO Questions


isaboo
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Ok...I've watched Phantom twice. Where do we learn that the Phantom's name is Erik? Does Christine believe until the end that the Phantom is the spirit of her dad? Who is the old man and woman at the auction? Is the man Raoul? Why does she have to keep pulling his mask off? It seems to make him mad! lol I need cliffnotes or something. I'll have to watch it a few more times. It's hard to catch all the details when the entire movie is singing.

Edited by isaboo
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Ok...I've watched Phantom twice. Where do we learn that the Phantom's name is Erik? Does Christine believe until the end that the Phantom is the spirit of her dad? Who is the old man and woman at the auction? I guess I'm confused...I'll ahve to watch it a few more times.

Well, Isaboo, I'll answer and I hope they are right......We never really learn in the movie that the Phantom's name is Erik...that was derived fromt he book by Gaston Leroux.......My take is that Christine believes the Phantom is the spirit of her father at the beginning of the movie, but once she sees him in the mirror and he takes her to the lair, I think she sees him as another entity.....the old man in the wheelchair at the auction is Raoul, Christine's husband as you'll see later in the movie when he returns the music box to her grave.....the old woman is believed to be Meg Giry, Christine's friend and Madame Giry's daughter.....some have even thought that it was Madam Giry, there on the Phantom's behalf, but since Meg and Raoul were closer in age, that made a little more sense to me.....I'm sure there are others who may have better answers than me, but this is my take....definately watch it again...and again....and again :D Edited by redroseblackribbon
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Why does she have to keep pulling his mask off? It seems to make him mad! lol

That's OK, honey, it took me a couple times and reading some posts here to totally understand it all as well. LOL

The first time Christine removed his mask in the lair, I believe was simply due to her curiosity and was rewarded with a healthy dose of Erik's wrath at unveiling his deep insecurity and pain. The second during the Point of No Return, was Christine's last effort to reveal to all the audience and the police that the Phantom that they were looking for was right there before their very eyes. That one took me a while to get. All I kept thinking the first dozen times I watched the movie, was "That betch! How could she *do* that to him - *again*?!! :tantrum: Then Erik's expression at her second betrayal pierced my soul. :tissues:

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At the end of the movie....he breaks all the mirrors and sings...."it's over now, the music of the night" and walks thru the opening of where the mirror was. Where does he go? Does it mean he feels he doesn't need to hide anymore? I'm sorry for the stupid questions...I'm just trying to get an understanding of the story.

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Isaboo

From what I know through other sources, the old woman at the auction IS Madame Giry and not her daughter Meg. The explanation behind why Madame Giry and Raoul seem to be too close in age, is that Raoul has been in very ill health and looks much older than his actual age, which would be in his mid to late 60's. Whereas, Madame Giry is said to be in excellent health, due to her training as a dancer.

I encourage you to read some of the older threads here on the board. You might find some of the discussions fascinating. I think you will find that the more you watch the movie, the more you will be moved by it!

Swannie

Edited by Swansong
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No worries, isaboo. Some of us never get tired of talking about POTO. LOL!

I think he sings "It's over now, the music of the night" because he has lost his protege, Christine, and his creative outlet at the Opera House. They won't be making music together anymore and his dream of having her love has also been shattered like the mirror. As to where he goes when he steps through the broken mirror, we don't really know. But, it is clear he has to leave the Opera House and go into hiding elsewhere because the police and the mob are after him.

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The lady at the auction is Miranda Richardson for sure. So I also assume it is supposed to be Mme Giry, not Meg (I have even read it somewhere).

Christine probably considered Erik to be her dead father's spirit at the beginning, but not later, when she discovered his face (for the first time, I also think that she was just curious). Before Don Juan, Raoul probably told her what he knew from Mme Giry, so she might have known...

Where Erik went hrough the mirror - who knows? In the (orginal) book, he participated in building the Opera House, he knew the building very well, knew all the secret corridors (which the "film" Erik knew too)... He died soon after he learned Christine loved Raoul (out of sorrow - very sad and romantic...) In the film, it makes the impression he practically haven't left the Opera House since his childhood, which would make quite difficult for him to find a hiding place outside it - but he could have stayed somewhere in a secret place of the building that was not damaged by the fire, and, after some time, even return to his lair (and survive there with a help of Mme Giry)....

:pointy::pointy::pointy:

Edited by Donnie
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In the stage production the Phantom is more of a magician than in the movie and uses it often so it probably makes more sense when he disappears at the end. While I love the film, I think the filmmakers missed the mark by not displaying Erik's magic abilities in the cemetary scene as in the play(Erik was a master of magic on stage.) It seemed rather lame that Raoul would have him pinned on the ground and let him live just because Christine said "Don't" and then a few minutes later he is marching around plotting to kill Erik. JMHO!! In that instance the play did a better job of making us understand why Erik is never caught.

P.S I'm sure that is Mdm Giry at the auction not Meg because of the way they acknowledged each other-implying only they knew the meaning of the monkey. Christine dies relatively young and Raoul and Madame Giry lived to be quite old and Erik must have been ancient!!!

Edited by annabanana
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And Raoul getting the upper hand at the cemetary was just wrong! lol!

I agree...I personally think that Erik should have kicked Raoul's arse! But, there is a reason Raoul bested him. Erik lived (according to the 04 movie) most of his life in the Opera, Raoul grew up privaliged(sp); therefore Raoul had fencing lessons growing up, plus he had a brother to spar with.

I think Erik did a pretty damn good job of keeping up! No training, and full of passion. Two things that will probably get ya killed. I know in fencing that you really do have to keep your wits about you when fighting.

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To me, the scene at the cemetary did make a sense. Erik was "just" a man, not a supranatural creature. When he was in the Opera House, he had an advantage of knowing the building so well, maybe even developing some improvements, but all of this were "just" secret corridors, mechanical, visual and sound effects, trap doors (or other traps) and things like that, that could be explained logically. When at the cemetary, at the open space, he did not have this advantage. He fought well, but Raoul was maybe more lucky...

To me, this scene makes Erik more human. Maybe this even was an intention of filmmakers.

:pointy::pointy::pointy:

Edited by Donnie
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Isaboo,

You'll find that many of us have come up with our own stories as to what happens to the Phantom after he leaves the Opera House! I, for one, had to come up with my own 'happy ending' because I felt so bad for him that I would bawl my eyes out every time I watched it!

If you watch it with the subtitles a couple of times it really helps.

Issy

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They say it because Madame Giry was a ballerina in good health. We assume Raoul fell on ill health somewhere down the line.

I think Christine removed the mask the first time out of curiosity.

The second time Erik's song had her mesmerized and only repeated in a tune just like Raoul sang to her on the roof did Christine pull out. I think she unmasked Erik to expose him and because she feared him.

I think she was immediately remorseful afterward by the look on her face.

I have read the libretto to the stage play. I know Joel Schumacher wanted Erik or the Phantom as he is called in the movie and stage play to be a man and nothing more. Now he was able to do magic.

Actually I much prefer Gerry;s costume and his portrayal to anything I have seen online of the stage play and I glad fire balls did not come out of his mouth at the cemetery.

I love to think of Erik as a man.

I like Raoul. I know on a Gerry site that may not be popular, but in the Gerry movie I did like Raoul.

I felt sorry for Christine.

My heart broke for the Phantom in the end, but I did not blame Christine for leaving. I just hoped someone else would love him.

Love,

Tracy

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  • 1 month later...

Bumping because I thought I would ask this - since I don't see it in the archives of questions and comments. :)

In the last song PONR, when Erik and Christine are singing - does anyone else notice that his face looks more deformed with the mask (on the side) and his hair is more unkempt (from the side) than in the other numbers where he was perfect looking? I know that is probably because this is the big reveal etc... just commenting.

Also, when they are singing this song and they pan back to Raoul at the end he has tears in his eyes. What is your perception of this? Do you think he realizes that Christine will always be connected to the Phantom or does he feel the Phantom's pain? Just wanted to know the experts opinions. :)

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I read in an interview that Patrick Wilson felt the connection and the chemistry between Gerry and Emmy when he was watching them sing PONR, and when Patrick saw them together he felt like he was stumbling upon a well-established relationship. So, I think that Patrick as Raoul felt the connection between the characters of Phantom and Christine, and his face and his eyes showed that. I don't think the character of Raoul understood the connection betwee Christine and her mysterious teacher until PONR, and then Raoul didn't know quite how to handle it (because I truly believe that Raoul was also deeply in love with Christine, he just loved her differently than the Phantom did). And yes, you can see Gerry's deformity at the top of his face and his blondish brown wig under his black wig when he is singing to Christine "All I Ask of You" just before Christine unmasks him (which is probably the reason these things were seen at this point because the unmasking was about to happen in a matter of seconds, the unmasking wasn't about to happen before Phantom stared to sing "All I Ask of You").

I also loved the fact that Gerry's Phantom had a human touch to him, even though I did wish that Phantom had won the sword fight. However, I can understand why they had Raoul won (it made the Phantom appear more as just a man, it made Raoul look like more a threat and a worthy opponent for Phantom, and it showed that Christine has feelings for Phantom when she keeps Raoul from killing him).

Please feel free to ask more POTO questions, and I will answer them to the best of my abilitiy along with everyone else. I simply love tallking about POTO, especially Gerry's breathtaking, powerful, and emotionally charged performance.

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Well, here is my take on your comments.

In the last song PONR, when Erik and Christine are singing - does anyone else notice that his face looks more deformed with the mask (on the side) and his hair is more unkempt (from the side) than in the other numbers where he was perfect looking? I know that is probably because this is the big reveal etc... just commenting.

This was one of my first Phantom discussions. My mom and I were talking about it, and she seemed to think that it was not intentional, that it was in fact a continuity error. (Which as you may or may not know, Phantom is full of! Sheesh! I could do a better job!) Me, I never could come up with a plausible reason, so yours is as good as any.

Also, when they are singing this song and they pan back to Raoul at the end he has tears in his eyes. What is your perception of this? Do you think he realizes that Christine will always be connected to the Phantom or does he feel the Phantom's pain? Just wanted to know the experts opinions. :)

The tears in Patrick Wilson's eyes were in fact unscripted! What Patrick was feeling during filming was that he was very protective of Emmy (they'd been working together for months), and here comes this other man- blatantly seducing his woman (this was in fact Gerry and Emmy's first time filming together. Up to this point Gerry was on set, but being true to Erik was mostly unseen<a Phantom if you will>), and he reacted! Luckily for us, it worked pairfectly.

Hope this answers your question. Thanks for opening up this discussion again!

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Oh, yes, I did read somewhere that Gerry was the "big secret" if you will until "Point of No Return," and boy wasn't it an amazing revealing of the secret. I can guess that people didn't see much of Gerry on set unless they had a scene with him as Gerry was always busy with singing somewhere else (there's no doubt in my mind that Gerry was among the hardest workers in this movie). I can understand Patrick reacting the way that he did, and it did indeed work out well as it showed that Raoul truly cared about Christine. There is a lot of continuity errors in POTO that many of us probably wouldn't make, no doubt about it, but it's still my favorite movie at this time.

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Wow-I was hesistant to ask the question because I am so new to the board and the movie is an older film of his now. Thanks ladies for your insight.

As I was watching this movie for about the 10th time in a month, I thought I would search information about it on here and got some great information. I did listen to an interview where Gerry is answering questions from fans and he mentions that PONR was his first time on film after months of being around and weeks of not being on screen. That explains so much to me where the chemistry is so strong between him and Emmy. Can you imagine working on this film day in and day out yet you aren't around the other star until 5 weeks into filming? That scene where he puts his hands around her neck and then slides them down her arm and hand - you can literally see the chills run up her spine. The part about Patrick Wilson feeling protective of Christine as Raoul when Gerry comes on for the first time, explains a lot about his tears too. I have to admit, the very first time I saw PW's tears, it took my breath away but it befuddled me for a while now. I agree that Raoul loved Christine very much but think his character was threatened by the hold that the Phantom had on Christine and that scene is so perfectly done. PW is awesome as Raoul and was a good choice compared to GB.

I love this movie so much - and the music just plays in my background a lot while I am writing. :) It inspires me and hearing GB's versions of Erik has spoiled me if I ever see another version, I have a feeling I will be disappointed.

Edited by galpal2008
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I totally agree with you, galpal2008, it would be hard for someone to perform a better Phantom than what Gerry gave us. For now, Gerry is the Phantom to be me, and it would be almost impossible for someone else to replace him. And I agree that Patrick Wilson was perfect for the role of Raoul, just as Gerry was perfect for the role of the Phantom and Emmy Rossum was perfect for the role of Christine. I couldn't see Patrick as the Phantom, and I couldn't see Gerry as Raoul; they were perfect for the characters they were, and I really wish that I could have heard more of Gerry and Patrick singing together. They only sang one line together, and even though you could hear the differences in their voices from just that one line alone, it would have been nice to hear them merge some more together as Gerry's is my favorite voice of the three and Patrick's is my second favorite voice. Don't get me wrong, I love Emmy's voice as well (especially for one so young), but as a girl, I want to hear some beautiful male voices, not just a beautiful female voice, and boy oh boy, did I get to hear some beautiful male voices from Gerry and Patrick. Of course, I probably wouldn't like this movie as much if Gerry wasn't in it (Gerry's voice and acting made this movie for me, but I love Patrick's voice as well, just not as much as Gerry's of course).

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And I agree that Patrick Wilson was perfect for the role of Raoul, just as Gerry was perfect for the role of the Phantom and Emmy Rossum was perfect for the role of Christine.

Did I read somewhere that Joel Schumaker was the one who did the casting? I agree, it was perfectly cast. When I first saw Emmy Rossum on t.v. years ago (before I discovered POTO and GB), I thought "wow, she is too young for Christine" but seeing the movie, I understood her character's belief that the Phantom was her angel of music sent by her father.

Patrick Wilson's voice is angelic to me. I loved hearing him sing to Christine and even at the end, the one line with GB. GB's voice was not as well trained but that rock n roller that attracted ALW to GB is what sold the Phantom for me personally - that and the wonderful acting on GB's part. He said more with his eyes than the best actors can say with their whole body....AWESOME, just awesome.

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Just :2cents: I don't care how many movies Gerry does, The Phantom will always be my favorite and is to this day my all time favorite movie!!! That is just how strongly I feel for and about this movie and the characters that made it so unforgettable....and everytime I read a book about the Phantom of the Opera regardless of the author, my mind immediately sees and relates the story to all the characters in the movie. To me they were just THAT GOOD!!!!!! Gerry, Patrick, Emmy, Miranda, Jennifer, and even that wretched Minnie Driver. Loved Loved Loved them all. I saw where they were showing The Phantom of the Opera on the Oxygen channel Saturday nite and they are advertising it frequently. Love just watching the ad clip on it and although I have the movie, I think I will just have to watch it on Oxygen. This is for any of you who may have that channel but not the movie...God help the poor soul that doesn't!!!

Tojo

:erik::phantom::donjuan::reddeath2::rose::reddeath: You are and always will be my secret fantasy :phantom2:

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