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AbandonThought

Law Abiding Citizen- Gals' reviews and discussion

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I know when I saw it for the first time my only gripe was why didn't they have more family time at the beginning so people got a chance to know and care about his wife and daughter. It was my fear with it heading right into the home invasion would people care and sympathise with his plight?? I may be wrong in saying this - did we care too much or more than we should because of how we all feel about Gerry - and we imagined him in that situation for real????.

I do feel the scene in Nick's office when told he was accepting a plea bargain instead of going to trial was heart rending and that was the only time you got an insight into how broken up Clyde was. The look on his face when he saw Darby shake Nick's hand was spine chilling and probably just tipped him over the edge. I think we have to remember it was 10 years before he came to exact his revenge so he had probably built up alot of anger in that time and was so intent on executing his plan that he may have been devoid of emotion and rational thinking.

I think if anything while I do not have a husband or kids you can't help but route for Clyde because if somebody did something so awful to a loved one first instincts is to want to make them suffer too. I do wonder if Clyde had any remorse in killing innocent people like the judge, lawyer and Sarah etc as they were only doing their job. Ames I also think was a guilty bystander you are never shown how involved he was in the killings - you just get the impression Darby did it all.

I was gripped from start to finish and even though there were alot of WTF moments they tied everything up perfectly when things started to unravel and everything eventually made sense. I do think the Judge's death scene will go down as one of the best shock moments ever in film and will be spoken about for a long time to come. Unless you paid attention to the trailer you may not have seen her death coming and even though I knew something was going to happen I never for one minute expected it to be like that. I can't imagine what that scene must have done to someone who never expected anything to happen and just hope they did not have a dicky ticker :lmao:

Moira

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When I went the second time to see LAC, the theater was nearly full and the audience was fully behind Clyde more then they were Nick for most of the film anyway. I think everyone responded to Gerry in this role, whether they were Gerry’s fans or not. I loved that Gerry did not play Clyde as a one note psychopath. He was tragic rather then evil.

For me anyway, although brief the first scene set up Clyde as a caring family man, working beside his daughter, tinkering with computer parts while the little girl tinkered with her beads, it clearly established the bond between them. That role clearly defined Clyde more then his shadowy work for the government and it did offer a contrast to Nick’s ambition and neglect of his daughter.

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I've seen it twice now and I liked it the second time better. Maybe cuz I knew what was going to happen so I could spend some time looking at other things that I missed. At times it was a bit formalic and the plot a bit implausible but but I'm fine w/that now. I just sat back and enjoyed the ride the second time around. Now my hubby want's to go see it so that's cool.

But I must say, I would have preferred if Gerry had a BIGGER azz. :yummy: just kidding. :funnyface:

Cassie

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I'm planning on going at least once more tomorrow, so I'll be doing my part to ensure good box office numbers! :D

Steph

Well fans my husband and I saw LAC yeaterday afternoon. Here's the deal... revenge was Clydes addiction. His acceptance did not have to mean a defeted resignation. I would like to have thought that Clydes final thoughts were that of figuring out the mystery and softening his issues with love and gratitude for those who tried to help him see his faults, and for those he killed. Most of all reconciliation was my main hope. I felt when Clyde held his daughter's beads once again in his hands and saw the letter "D" missing from the word DADDY. It was my desire to see an about change and sorrow for the actions he had taken on all of society. I saw a soft loving father and husband once again as a result of Clyde seeing DAD Y... his daughter was speaking to him. This is what I came away with after watching LAC. The more he resisted truth the more his discomfort. but in the end I wanted Clyde to be free of his actions of revenge ...and so he was.

Edited by planetwalkers

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I'm planning on going at least once more tomorrow, so I'll be doing my part to ensure good box office numbers! :D

Steph

Well fans my husband and I saw LAC yeaterday afternoon. Here's the deal... revenge was Clydes addiction. His acceptance did not have to mean a defeted resignation. I would like to have thought that Clydes final thoughts were that of figuring out the mystery and softening his issues with love and gratitude for those who tried to help him see his faults, and for those he killed. Most of all reconciliation was my main hope. I felt when Clyde held his daughter's beads once again in his hands and saw the letter "D" missing from the word DADDY. It was my desire to see an about change and sorrow for the actions he had taken on all of society. I saw a soft loving father and husband once again as a result of Clyde seeing DAD Y... his daughter was speaking to him. This is what I came away with after watching LAC. The more he resisted truth the more his discomfort. but in the end I wanted Clyde to be free of his actions of revenge ...and so he was.

I don't think the second D was really missing... it was just turned up so that the glare across the bead made it hard to read.

Steph

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I agree Steph. That is my recollection, as well. One of the letters was turned, so not as easily read.

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I spread the word among my friends and they told friends and so on. The result has been a lot of very lively conversation and debate about a movie that is proving to be extremely popular among the general populace in our area. I went and saw it at the first showing on opening day and it was a sellout. I had to take some time to think about this and process what I saw because this movie struck a very raw nerve with me. I knew it would - I just didn't realize just how raw the nerve was until a couple of days later.

My take:

Clyde Shelton is your basic, ordinary individual - a family man minding his own business when his home is invaded, he sees his wife stabbed and brutally raped as she lies dying on the floor of their foyer. Then, the man who rapes his dying wife scoops up and brutalizes and murders his only child. The home as sanctuary, sacred territory, safety? No f-ing way. Mental trauma of 1000 on a scale of 100. Couldn't possibly get worse, you say? No, but it does.

Shelton lives in a country that prides itself on the rule of law and justice in courts that are supposed to be predicated on the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" and that cases are tried on "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth". The courts will give him the justice he seeks. ("I saw their faces. The jury will believe me.")

The illusion of safety in the home is shattered beyond the ability of most of us to believe or even imagine. Tell me the hair on the back of your neck didn't stand up during the scene depicting the home invasion, rape and murder of Shelton's wife and the implied rape and murder of his little girl.

Shelton is left alive to suffer a figurative rape by the very justice system he thought would avenge the brutal deaths of those he loved most in the world. The person he thought would support him and look out for his interests and those of his dead family within the system betrays him in the worst manner, then shakes the hand of the scumbag who took away everything that mattered to him.

"You didn't even try, Nick. Even if you lost, you could have walked out of the courtroom with your head held high; I could've lived with that." "I'm at war with this, this broken thing, this thing that brought us together."

Nick: "This thing works for people who are sane."

No, it doesn't. Not for the sane, insane, or innocent. Only for the guilty.

I completely understood Shelton's motivation.

I've had some experience with the legal system in this country and it sucks. It's about deals, win/loss stats and stretching the letter of the law beyond recognition. It's about those who can afford the best lawyers who then twist and turn the language of the law to best suit them who get the "justice".

So, Shelton's methods for revenge/justice (depending on your POV) were outlandish? Ask the parent of a murdered child. Ask the families of victims of pedophilia. Ask the family of Nicole Brown.

Shelton waited 10 years for the system to redeem itself and when it didn't he took matters into his own hands. I don't condone vigilantism, but I sure understand why he did it and I completely sympathize with him - from start to finish.

So, Nick no longer made deals with murders? Well, Nick was going to have a looooong time to think about the ones he did make - each and every time he looked at his wife, looked at his daughter. I wonder if when he did, it ever crossed his mind - There but for the grace of g*d could have gone he.

Clyde's last scene was a relief - at least in my mind. He was finally about to have the peace he desperately wanted for so long. He was a man who had finally been able to take down those who destroyed his life and those he loved most.

Finally, Gerry's performance was gut-wrenching, riveting. This movie definitely deserves at least **** (four stars out of five). I would have liked to have seen more background on the time between the murders and when Clyde put his plan into action and his emotional evolution from grief to revenge. Nevertheless, this is one of the best movies I've seen this year and I'm looking forward to seeing it again and again.

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Great review catwoman! :cheer2: I was thinking a lot of the same things as you, but you expressed it all so eloquently.

All the reasons presented in the movie (and more) are why I've come to despise the legal system, and am miserable wallowing here in law school. I understand why the system is the way it is, and I recognize that it'll be nearly impossible to change... but I just can't be a part of it. It's a system that requires its actors to be amoral, and punishes those who act morally when doing so would be against the rules (which is far too often). LAC is a perfect expression of my frustrations and a very cathartic outing. Everytime I get frustrated with law school, I think I'll just head to the theatre... Gerry should have lots of money coming his way from me.

Steph

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I've seen it 3x now and it just gets better.All the familiar places,City Hall, etc was fun to watch.I've walked in a lot of those places.I was with several of the cast members after the 6pm screening Thursday and they were all eager to hear my thoughts.Gary kept saying" You liked the cell phone scene didn't ya? Didn't ya?"Regina Hall kept insisting I take pics with them as I was trying to take them.The entire cast was so nice and we were standing in DelFriso's none the less.Gerry really loved that place when he was here.I had almost the exact same meal he had in prison.The asparagus is sooo good and the steaks of course delicious.I'm sure he had a lot to do with giving them a plug.Now the part I found interesting was that when the meal was brought in and they painstakingly x-rayed the meal and disassembled the cart checking for weapons you could see a perfect tool to kill someone.It was blaring obvious, but they didn't see it!He gave his celly all the meat practically and kept the bone for himself and practically licked it clean.It fit perfectly into his hand.Clever indeed! Kudos to all I'm so proud of this movie.

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I've seen it 3x now and it just gets better.All the familiar places,City Hall, etc was fun to watch.I've walked in a lot of those places.I was with several of the cast members after the 6pm screening Thursday and they were all eager to hear my thoughts.Gary kept saying" You liked the cell phone scene didn't ya? Didn't ya?"Regina Hall kept insisting I take pics with them as I was trying to take them.The entire cast was so nice and we were standing in DelFriso's none the less.Gerry really loved that place when he was here.I had almost the exact same meal he had in prison.The asparagus is sooo good and the steaks of course delicious.I'm sure he had a lot to do with giving them a plug.Now the part I found interesting was that when the meal was brought in and they painstakingly x-rayed the meal and disassembled the cart checking for weapons you could see a perfect tool to kill someone.It was blaring obvious, but they didn't see it!He gave his celly all the meat practically and kept the bone for himself and practically licked it clean.It fit perfectly into his hand.Clever indeed! Kudos to all I'm so proud of this movie.

You know, they really could have let us watch him eat that entire meal ... why is that so sexy? Watching him eat ... oy ...

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and the way he kept licking his fingers,he was working that asparagus too.

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Swannie...I think I'm leaning towards your post...I was thinking the same thing.... The movie just jumped to 10 years later way too soon! Or as you said at least have flashbacks...say Clyde kneeling at the graveside of his wife and child showing his devastation and emptiness and maybe visualizing the Ba%$#rds in his head that were responsible... I don't know...to me something was missing...but...I only got to see it once ...maybe a second time around will make me see it in a different light...I still enjoyed it..don't get me wrong although I had to turn away from the business with the steak bone...too much gore for me.. But I do think he makes a gorgeous Cop!! :p Blond no...cop yeah!

I think I am going to go once more and see it with a different perspective! I have two really favorite parts ...the one in the Judges office and ....well you can all guess what the other is!! :cunning:

:wave: Frannie

Edited by ladyfran

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LOL! I noticed the way he licked his fingers, and it was quite distracting, LOL. Good times! DQ it sounds like you had a great time, and it's cool to be privy to that.

Hmmm, as far as Clyde I sympathized with him losing his wife and child. It was tragic. However, Clyde did wet works/black ops for the CIA. His business was murder. What makes a man seperate himself and get right in his mind with killing others, as part of his job. I've met SEALS, Force Recon, Snipers, etc.....so they all have a job to do...but they all know that killing is part of that job. So, what makes a man put aside that basic moral compass and say....'ok, for the greater good...I"m going to eliminate this guy.'

If he'd immediately gone after them I would say that it was purely vengeful. He waited ten years, and plotted this thing out. That adds another even more dangerous component to his persona. I want to call him a pure sociopath, but sociopath's mimic emotions they don't feel the same range of emotions that a normal human feels.

Jamie's character was typical prosecutor. Due to pure arrogance he pushed that deal off onto the man. It's ridiculous,but it happens. The GreenRiver Killer (killed unchecked in SeaTac area for almost thirty years) didn't recieve the death penalty because he promised to give detailed discriptions of where to find some of the missing women. Sammy 'The Bull' Gravano did five years for confessing to 19 murders, and testifying against John Gotti. I digress, I do that...sorry, ladies!

I think if Jamie's character had at least made an effort to keep the man informed of the case, and explain what and why they were doing things it would've at least seemed like he gave a crap.

The part where he killed the judge made me jump, LOL! It was lik her head split in two, and it was quite disgusting. Also loved the court room scene where he asked her if she took it up the arse, LOL...that made me laugh really hard.

Sorry for the ramble ladies!

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Hmmm, as far as Clyde I sympathized with him losing his wife and child. It was tragic. However, Clyde did wet works/black ops for the CIA.

Did I miss this part? Did the spy tell them that? I don't remember hearing that at all during the movie. What am I missing???

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SPOILERS!!

I didn't have to see Clyde's grief to understand it. The moment Darby lifted that little girl up and said "Kids like me" I was horrified enough to understand any vengence Clyde might seek. When Darby thenwalked away with only a small amount of jail time for turning against the guy who was just there for a robbery I didn't need to know what Clyde was doing during those 10 years. As soon as he began his spree I knew he had spent 10 years stewing and planning and scheming how he was going to break the system that had broken everything that mattered inside of him.

On the second viewing I got a better understanding of how Nick really only cared about his conviction rate, and not about justice. I understood the judge's guilt in the whole thing by her deciding to make the DNA evidence inadmissable (WTF!) I didn't really feel bad for any of them except maybe the cellmate. The ending explained WHY he did it but that just seemed exceptionally brutal and I still don't understand the motive except he wanted to get sent to solitary. Bill Reynolds would have been saved if Clyde's lunch had been served on time! How he planned that one out was brilliant. (BTW - an inconsistency - Clyde asked for pomme frits (french fries) with his steak and asparagus - but he got pasta - that could have sent him off on another wave of revenge!) Also - just a bit of trivia - 3 of Gerry's last 4 movies have featured asparagus in some way - Thandie Newton's sexy aspargus scene in RnR, the part in TUT where Joy is telling Abby about Mike's background and the last thing she says is "and he hates asparagus" and now his own sexy asparagus scene in LAC.

I'm not sure if this was mentioned but I saw Lisa's post that Alan's part as the priest must have been cut - well, if he had originally had any lines that was cut - but he was in the movie during the death penalty - you see him sitting in front of Nick and Sarah. Also, F. Gary Gray had a cameo and a line too (he brought a piece of evidence, or a report, out to Nick and the detective).

At the end I liked that we didn't see Clyde suffer - I think Gary and Gerry probably realized that the audience would end up on Clyde's side. I believe Clyde somewhat admired Nick for outsmarting him at the end and he just sat there and waited for the inevitable. What I did feel bad about on a more spiritual level was the belief that if there is a heaven and a hell surely Clyde as NOT about to be reunited with his wife and daughter in the afterlife. That made me feel sad, unless he made his ammends to God during those moment before the flames engulfed him.

I am thrilled that the movie more than doubled the early expectations for its weekend box office and with a hugely positive audience reaction I think it will continue to do well. Shows how much critics know - not much! I only regret I won't get to see it much more (maybe once) before leaving on Friday and it won't have been released in the UK yet.

P.S. - yes, Clyde's job was to plan how to murder people without even being in the room. Actually the first time I saw it I wondered if there was something personal in Darby targeting his family because he said "you can't fight fate" but he apparently said that all the time so it wasn't personal. It would have been harder to find sympathy for Clyde's actions if we knew that perhaps Clyde had been responsible for something happening to Darby's family. Also his killing spree after 10 years was not about vengence - he himself said so - it was about bringing the whole "justice" system down. But despite his protests I do believe there was a big vengence component, at least in the execution of Darby.

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Hmmm, as far as Clyde I sympathized with him losing his wife and child. It was tragic. However, Clyde did wet works/black ops for the CIA.

Did I miss this part? Did the spy tell them that? I don't remember hearing that at all during the movie. What am I missing???

When Jamie and the DA had the meeting with the DA's friend. The guy with the winter hat on.....he explained Clyde's job. He said that he was a brain, and he planned how to kill people without actually being there. That guy was a spy, and he said spy's were a dime a dozen but what Clyde did was basically rare, and pretty special.

Sounds to me like counterintelligence work.

D

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Hmmm, as far as Clyde I sympathized with him losing his wife and child. It was tragic. However, Clyde did wet works/black ops for the CIA.

Did I miss this part? Did the spy tell them that? I don't remember hearing that at all during the movie. What am I missing???

When Jamie and the DA had the meeting with the DA's friend. The guy with the winter hat on.....he explained Clyde's job. He said that he was a brain, and he planned how to kill people without actually being there. That guy was a spy, and he said spy's were a dime a dozen but what Clyde did was basically rare, and pretty special.

Sounds to me like counterintelligence work.

D

I got that ... I guess I don't know anything about it to say WHAT he did. Glad someone did cause it was one of the parts that was missing for me. :)

Thanks!

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I didn't see it as the judge's fault at all. If someone brings in tainted evidence, what is she supposed to do? Should she keep it in because she doesn't like the defednat? That also goes against the spirit of the justice system. The first people he got to, simply interpreted what had already been put on the books by the legislature. His coup de grace was to take out the people that made the laws.

Maybe if the police hadn't of tainted the evidence in some way Darby would've been on death row, or at least doing life.

The entire thing was a hot damn mess.

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Yes, he did. In the overpass tunnel, the spy explained that Clyde did wet work for the gov't and his job was to figure out ways to kill people without being present to do the deed and leave no clues. You know, just your typical, average, everyday CIA operative.

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SPOILERS!!

I didn't have to see Clyde's grief to understand it. The moment Darby lifted that little girl up and said "Kids like me" I was horrified enough to understand any vengence Clyde might seek. When Darby thenwalked away with only a small amount of jail time for turning against the guy who was just there for a robbery I didn't need to know what Clyde was doing during those 10 years. As soon as he began his spree I knew he had spent 10 years stewing and planning and scheming how he was going to break the system that had broken everything that mattered inside of him.

I agree with you on this one. If this had been a drama, I would have wanted to see more exposition as to his state of mind, but it wasn't... it was a thriller, and as such had to move quickly. Plus, I agree that the home invasion scene was plenty to understand where Clyde was coming from.

On the second viewing I got a better understanding of how Nick really only cared about his conviction rate, and not about justice. I understood the judge's guilt in the whole thing by her deciding to make the DNA evidence inadmissable (WTF!) I didn't really feel bad for any of them except maybe the cellmate. The ending explained WHY he did it but that just seemed exceptionally brutal and I still don't understand the motive except he wanted to get sent to solitary. Bill Reynolds would have been saved if Clyde's lunch had been served on time! How he planned that one out was brilliant. (BTW - an inconsistency - Clyde asked for pomme frits (french fries) with his steak and asparagus - but he got pasta - that could have sent him off on another wave of revenge!) Also - just a bit of trivia - 3 of Gerry's last 4 movies have featured asparagus in some way - Thandie Newton's sexy aspargus scene in RnR, the part in TUT where Joy is telling Abby about Mike's background and the last thing she says is "and he hates asparagus" and now his own sexy asparagus scene in LAC.

Yes, they did a good job subtlely making it clear that Nick was climbing the career ladder. I think he used his "some justice is better than no justice at all line" like a security blanket that he could wrap himself in in order to make a deal when he was worried about losing a case and lowering his conviction rate. I do think he cared about making the bad guys pay, but I think he lost sight of the "justice" aspect of it in order to ensure that there was SOME punishment. And hey, even if it means that there's no way Darby could walk, 3 years for aggravated rape and murder... NOT justice.

Okay, time for my rant on the Exclusionary Rule... It's actually a good thing, and although misunderstood sometimes, not part of the "broken" system (IMO). The Bill of Rights lays out our basic civil rights, including the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. When the government violates these rights, even if they come up with good evidence, there have to be consequences, otherwise well-meaning law enforcement officers would violate civil rights in the name of justice, believing that the end justifies the means. If there is no way to ensure that our civil rights aren't violated, then they're meaningless. The Exclusionary Rule is a way of holding the government accountable for its violations. It's a bummer when the exclusion of evidence results in a lesser penalty for the truly deserving, but it's one of those times that you actually HAVE to distance yourself and keep chanting "it's all for the greater good." (I'm extremely disillusioned about the legal system, and this is one thing I still believe in, just for reference.) Also, the judge didn't "decide" to make it inadmissible... it either is, or it isn't. All the judge could do is apply the law and precedent as it stands. Of course, this doesn't take into account the fact that she was later willing to ignore law and precedent and violate civil rights when it best suited her, when Clyde was beginning his reign of terror.

And nice observation on the asparagus, btw! Good catch. :D

Also his killing spree after 10 years was not about vengence - he himself said so - it was about bringing the whole "justice" system down. But despite his protests I do believe there was a big vengence component, at least in the execution of Darby.

I agree that it was not solely driven by vengeance, and I LOVE Gerry's acting in that scene... "Vengeance?! You think this was about VENGEANCE?!!" You can almost feel the waves of anger coming off him! But yeah, killing Darby definitely had something to do with vengeance. Yeah, it was a nice jumping off point for his elaborate plan, but he certainly wanted him to suffer for what he did to his wife and child. I don't think Clyde would deny that.

Okay, and I have one last ridiculous rant about the legal system and the issues that this movie raised:

The American legal system is known as an Adversary System. Basically, the underlying assumption is that there are two opposing sides, each arguing for their own interests (employing attorneys to zealously advocate for their clients), and that through this, an impartial arbiter (jury or judge) will be able to discern the truth. WHO THINKS THAT SHOULD WORK?! Two sides basically lying their a$$es off, neither believing that what they say is the complete truth, and SOMEHOW the truth will come out?! WTF?!

Then there are the attorneys. In the adversary system, the attorneys are meant to zealously represent their clients, and to adopt and seek their ends. Basically, this results in the attorney having to abandon their own system of morals and ethics and act amorally in order to do their jobs. Defense attorneys in particular have to keep telling themselves that their job is not to get their client off, their job is to make the government prove its case. Yes, I see how zealous advocacy by a competent defense attorney is necessary to check the corruptions inherent in the system, but I take issue with a system that requires so called "professionals" to abandon their own beliefs and argue in favor of rapists and murderers!

The Adversary System results in some truly appalling situations. The Model Rules of Professional Responsibility, which are binding on attorneys (you can be disbarred and lose your license if you violate them) require an attorney to keep his client's confidentiality. A client can tell his attorney that another man is serving life in prison for a crime that the client committed, and the attorney is BOUND BY THE RULES not to say anything! How can we align ourselves with a system that REQUIRES an attorney to stand mute while there is such a miscarriage of justice?! A client can tell his attorney that he kidnapped a young girl and has her locked in a dungeon, and unless the lawyer "REASONABLY" believes that the person is in IMMINENT DANGER OF DEATH OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM, he cannot go to the police... and he will be DISBARRED if he tries! It boggles the mind! And these aren't hypotheticals that I'm throwing out; these are real situations that we discussed JUST TODAY in my Legal Profession course!

I look around me at the blank faces of my classmates, seemingly unmoved by the tragedies that this Adversary System causes and I fear for the future! The state of our legal system today drives away anyone with the integrity that it so sorely needs! I understand why we have the rules that we do. I understand why they are necessary for the Adversary System to function... but I can't in good conscience operate in a System like this! I have too strong a sense of justice, and too strong a capacity for empathy to be able to sit back and abide by the rules in a situation where I know it is morally wrong to do so. If I ever did become a lawyer after all this (which I won't), I would have to break the rules and suffer the consequences if my conscience told me to do so. If I have to compromise MY MORALS, and indeed MY STATUS AS A HUMAN BEING just to work in this profession, then it's certainly not a profession that I desire to be in! Seeing and dealing with all the pain that this System causes is certainly not worth the hefty paycheck. No wonder more than 50% of lawyers in America have alcohol, drug abuse, and emotional problems!

Clyde got screwed by the system and he screwed the system back.

It's about F$&*ing time!

Steph

Edited by AbandonThought

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Thanks Steph for the insight into the system. I guess a piece that was left missing then, at least for me, was any indication of just what it was that happened that screwed up the DNA evidence to make the judge rule it as inadmissable. I know a brief throwaway comment was made later about not messing up a crime scene, but we never saw anything of the crime scene after the crime was committed and there was not enough explanation when Nick was telling Clyde why the DNA couldn't be used. There had to be quite a lot of DNA and physical evidence in a case like that and unless the cops were total idiots it is difficult to believe they screwed it up that badly.

Your information on the adversarial nature of they system also sheds a lot of light on a boss I once had. He was a VP in a development company but he was a bar-admitted lawyer as well. His style of management was always to pit the heads of different departments against each other, making everyone always angry at each other for screwing up. He never expected the office to work like a team - but rather like a bunch of teams all with different and opposing goals. Now I get why.

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Thanks Steph for the insight into the system. I guess a piece that was left missing then, at least for me, was any indication of just what it was that happened that screwed up the DNA evidence to make the judge rule it as inadmissable. I know a brief throwaway comment was made later about not messing up a crime scene, but we never saw anything of the crime scene after the crime was committed and there was not enough explanation when Nick was telling Clyde why the DNA couldn't be used. There had to be quite a lot of DNA and physical evidence in a case like that and unless the cops were total idiots it is difficult to believe they screwed it up that badly.

Yeah, I could have used a little more explanation on why the evidence was excluded as well. I guess they decided that it wasn't really integral to the plot, and might have even been done it deliberately to show Clyde's desperation at not having that aspect explained to his satisfaction as well. I mean, Nick's response was "Exclusionary Rule; the defense counsel maneuvered." Well... umm... what? If it were me, I would want him to tell me exactly who f-ed up and how, and perhaps have the rationale behind the Exclusionary Rule explained to me to help soften the blow. But, Nick was very rush-rush in this meeting, not so caring about Clyde's feelings, so it's pretty in keeping with the story that he gave a one line non-explanation for the exclusion.

Steph

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The problem with the DNA thing is that it doesn't hold up. There would have been plenty of DNA to prosecute Darby, especially since he raped both the wife and daughter.

This is called "suspension of disbelief" - when you have to let go of what is real in order to believe the story. So, I do. I realize this is a movie and they have to do some suspension of disbelief in order to have a story.

I haven't seen it since Saturday. I think I need to go again.

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Clyde got screwed by the system and he screwed the system back.

It's about F{:content:}amp;*ing time!

Steph

Excellent post, Steph. Bravo!

I especially like your last comment. It's so very, very true.

Thank you, Clyde, for doing what most of us can only dream of...

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