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AbandonThought

My Milo has a stranger aggression problem :(

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My baby, my boy, the love of my life, my little man Milo has a problem.

He's the perfect dog, except for one thing... he bites strangers. Not all strangers, and not all the time. I've introduced him to a number of people who he didn't seem to have a problem with, but it's been a recurring problem, and it's been getting worse.

Today I had a friend come over to study for a final. Milo had bit at this guy before, so we were sitting on the porch when he came up, because I was thinking it would be better if Milo saw him coming. So, I held onto Milo's collar as Brandon walked up. Milo was wagging his tail and I didn't see anything in his posture that seemed aggressive. Brandon held out his hand and stood still so that Milo could smell him. After about 5 seconds Milo growled and then immediately jumped and bit at Brandon. He got his pants but didn't break through the thick fabric. I was grabbing to get ahold of him, but didn't get him in time and he jumped and bit Brandon on the arm. That was the point at which I grabbed him and took him inside and put him in his crate.

This isn't the only incident he's had. When I went to visit Lisa over Thanksgiving I left him with my friend Meghan, and he had some trouble with her boyfriend Jeff. She made it sound like mostly he was just nipping at his heels and stuff, except for one instance when Jeff turned and scolded him "NO!" and Milo jumped and bit at him. I was very disheartened to hear about that.

Aside from those incidents, he also jumps and barks aggressively when we pass strangers walking. This is one of the oddest parts of all this, because he never used to do that. We used to walk past people with no trouble. Then, certain people would get his hackles up. Now, it seems like almost everyone we walk past he has a negative reaction to. I've had to resort to giving people a wide berth or stopping and having him sit off the sidewalk with my hand gripping his scruff while people pass.

Some of this could be my fault. I've heard that dogs can sense anxiety very well, and he probably senses that I'm tense when people approach us (because I'm worried about his reaction), so that just puts him on alert. Still, there isn't much I can do to stop that... we can't just walk toward them and hope he doesn't bite them.

Ever since his first negative reaction to a stranger I read a bunch on the internet about dogs who bite strangers and what can be done. I did an extra amount of research tonight because from his most recent incidents his problem doesn't seem to be the fear-biting that I thought it was originally. I looked up the various types of aggression in dogs, and he seems to have characteristics from several categories. The one that seems to fit the closest though is protective aggression.

With protective aggression, the dog growls or bites when he perceives a threat to his owner. While this doesn't 100% account for what happened when I was on vacation, it seems to fit everything else. It's not dominance aggression, because he's not dominant with me (unless he's trying to establish himself in the pecking order above new people who come to my house, but that wouldn't explain why he acts aggressively on walks). It's not territorial, because he does it outside of our home... I really think that protective aggression makes the most sense, especially when you add one of Milo's *first* incidents into the equation...

Shortly after I got Milo, I had an evening with a gentleman friend. This friend spent the night. The next morning, I was sitting on the floor petting Milo while he arranged himself to leave. He grabbed for me to kiss me, and Milo bit him once and let go when he backed off. He easily could have perceived the grabbing as this friend trying to hurt me, because grabbing and kissing roughly was something that this friend did. That was definitely a protective attack.

I'm just so distressed. Milo is the SWEETEST, MOST LOVING dog. But all some people see is this vicious, violent creature. I don't want him to fear people. I want him to love everyone until given a reason not to! I keep trying to tell him that I will never let anyone hurt him (and that I can take care of myself!). Honestly, he's the perfect dog, so well-behaved, aside from this.

Not to mention, I'm taking him back to NC for the winter holiday after my last final on Thursday. I don't want him to have a negative reaction to my family!! I know he'll love my Mom... he's never had a bad reaction to any woman I've introduced him to... but my Dad has a deep booming voice and I could imagine Milo perceiving him as threatening. I just hope that he sees me being relaxed with them and takes his cue from me.

I'm going to look into professional training for him, but it's not something that I can fix before my trip to NC.

I don't know what I'm looking for in posting this. I don't know if there's any advice that would do me any good. Maybe I'm just looking to vent, or seeking people to commiserate. He's just my baby... :unsure:

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Steph

Edited by AbandonThought

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Steph, I'm sorry you are going through this but know this, it is not unusual in a shelter dog. Milo was put there for some reason and in his case it could be because he was abused by a man and he became aggressive toward men. This sounds like the case with Milo. I have heard about dog handlers who can take a dog who is aggressive because of past experiences and can turn them around. I saw a documentary on that on TV. I would start by talking to a Vet. He may know a person who can work with Milo. Milo definitely is afraid of men and acts out his fear with aggressive behavior. I would be careful of him around men from now on until you can find a solution to your problem. Here in Colorado a dog gets three bite reports and then he is put to sleep. After each bite report to the police he is quarantined for 10 days because of rabies. You are lucky no one has reported him. Does he snap at men or actually bite hard to break the skin? Snapping is usually a warning bite to stay away. A hard bite means business. That could be serious because people will report that. Who knows what goes through a dog's mind. Milo may have issues the poor baby can't let go of. A good dog handler could put his fears at rest. I hope you can find a solution. I know the hell you are going through. You know where to find me if you just need to talk. I'm going to start saying prayers for Milo in hopes he can find peace from his fears.

~HUGS~ Kathy

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Aww Steph I hope you get it sorted out soon and get to bottom off issue. Dogs can be very territorial and jealous. I have to agree if he was a shelter dog what did he get put in for??. It could all stem back. I always feel in most cases unless a dog is egged on they are quite harmless. Kids sometimes don't know when to quit and it's a dogs instinct to snap away. I get quite saddened when a dog has to be destroyed because some person didn't quit annoying it and it turns on them.

I really do hope you get to bottom of this as I'd hate for reasons beyond both your control the situation worsens.

Moira

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You need to watch "The Dog whisperer" Cesar Milan; he works miracles with dogs. In fact; I've used some of his tricks on my sister's and daughter's dogs and it works! He is kind and patient with the animals but at the same time shows them right from wrong. He never beats an animal but understands where they are coming from. My husband and I watch him every night. Even the most vicious dogs; in time learn that they have nothing to fear. He even look like a little Chao Chao him self...cute!

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I hope you find a solution, Steph. I was also going to suggest checking out Caesar Milan's show, plus her has several books on dog training and correcting common dog issues. Good luck. Is he fine around other dogs on walks? Gerry might have to be the one to watch out for Milo. Maybe let milo and Lolita play, and Lock yourself away with Gerry. Haha!

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Thanks everyone.

He ended up in the shelter because he was abandoned. They think his owner (who was a black man) was abusive, and in the end he put Milo in the backyard and moved away without him. He definitely has a problem with black people, and I'm sure it was from that.

His bites have usually been warning bites. He just clamps down and then lets go and doesn't do it again as long as they back away. He was a little more aggressive with Brandon yesterday though, and bit him twice before I pulled him back. Still, it didn't break the skin, it was more like scratches.

Brandon told me yesterday that Louisiana is a one bite state, and after one reported bite they could legally put him to sleep (which I find ridiculously cruel, by the way). I can handle him on walks, and of course I'm going to be very cautious about who I bring over.

We had a good day today though. On our walk we bumped into a woman and her dog who live nearby. I'd met her on walks a few times before and the dogs greeted each other and wanted to play. She suggested that I bring Milo over to her place and let them play in the backyard. As he's always been fine when other dogs are concerned, I said sure. It was great. The two dogs had such a great time, and I talked with this woman about what Milo's been going through too. One of the times I saw her when I was walking Milo she didn't have her dog and Milo barked at her aggressively, so she knew something had been up. She agreed that his reaction to strangers was a protective reaction, and that he likely could sense my tension when strangers approach, and that just made it worse. He was very sweet today though and was happy to let her pet and love him.

I found an animal behaviorist in Raleigh where I'll be for winter break, and it seems like an ideal solution for Milo, but it's insanely expensive ($190 an hour, and they recommend about a 3 hour session for dogs). Unless my parents offer to fund it (which I don't see happening), I won't be able to do it.

My contact at the shelter that I got him from suggested training with the LASPCA and said that I can get a discount because he's a rescue dog. I'm sure it's a lot less pricey, but also, not as tailored to our needs.

All in all though, I feel a lot better today. I really think that the severity of the episode yesterday had something to do with Brandon himself (as I theorized before, possibly because he's a smoker). Something about him triggered an anxiety reaction and that was the only thing Milo knew to do. I spent a lot of time in my head going through all the men I've had over with which Milo had no problem, and it far outweighs the number who he's had a problem with. So, I think his problem is that people with certain characteristics remind him of his first abusive owner, and he's wary of strangers because he's protective.

Thank you all for your help. I've seen The Dog Whisperer before, but I don't have cable and I'd need to see specific episodes tailored to our problem for it to help. I'll see if Cesar has any training videos geared toward aggression reactions, but with that kind of stuff I wonder if he has any... I'd expect him to strongly recommend professional training rather than the do-it-yourself approach.

Mostly, thanks for listening.

Steph

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I think you have hit on the problem, Steph. Milo is apprehensive about men because a man was abusive towards him. A man that would leave a dog helpless is the kind who would hurt him physically. Why don't these people just drop their animals, that they no longer want, off at a shelter? How cruel are these people. This man could have also smoked which is what triggered Milo's aggression on Brandon. The bottom line is, Milo needs some help. I agree, the cost of an expert is way too much to pay. I am certain that you can find DVDs of trainers, either in your library or in DVD stores. The library would be the best bet because if it isn't exactly what you wanted after viewing it you haven't spent any money on it. The fact that Milo is not out to dig into people hard shows me he is just warning. That is an easier trait to stop than a dog who is out to really hurt people. Milo just needs some retraining on behavior. He trusts other dogs because he has not had any problems with them. People alone, especially men, still make him scared. He is worth working with. Don't think you need an expert to work with him. You just need the tools on how to do it yourself. Some vets have DVDs they loan to their patients when a need arises. Have you googled "Dog aggression towards people". I found lots of links on that subject. Try it out. Good luck sweetie!!

~HUGS~ Kathy

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Oh yes, I googled a lot Kathy. I think I read everything the internet has to offer on the subject. Most of the sites that seemed the most helpful basically said not to mess with it by yourself, or you could make it worse. I think what I really need to work on is keeping myself calm.

On our walk this morning a woman came out of her house to get in her car, which was in a driveway in front of us on the sidewalk. I didn't want to let Milo keep walking toward her incase he decided to get barky and jumpy, so I asked him to stop and sit, rather than pulling him back with the leash. He stopped and sat patiently while the woman got in her car and pulled away.

That showed me that my tension definitely feeds to his anxiety. If I immediately tighten my grip on his leash, he gets the message that there's something wrong with whatever is nearby. He doesn't realize that it's him that's making me react that way, and he senses danger from whatever he can find: the person coming near us. I think doing a training class with him will be a great idea (even if it's the more informal LASPCA class). If he becomes more receptive to listening to me when distractors like people appear, I won't have to pull him back with the leash, and he probably won't get quite so many anxiety messages from me.

I'm sure that the abuse in his past is a factor with what's going on, and I'm confident that's the reason he's always had trouble with Brandon, but it's not the whole story with his reactions to people, because he didn't used to be that way. I checked with my contact from the shelter and she said it's odd that he's having this issue now because he was one of the dogs that anybody could walk without issue. I, and my shelter contact, think that it's his protectiveness of me that's making him step up his vigilance against people.

Good idea about getting training videos from the library, Kathy. I'll see if the one here on campus has anything I can use.

I looked into more animal behaviorists, and I found one in Raleigh that's much more affordable ($130 for an hour and a half in-home consultation), and one around here as well. I'm getting back to being confident that Milo will have no trouble with my family as long as I don't let myself tense up when he meets them, but if for some reason he does have a serious problem with my Dad or brother, I can contact the behaviorist there in Raleigh to get me started on working it out.

Poor baby Milo... First he was abused and neglected, and now I give him SO much love and attention that he's overly worried about protecting me. He can't win! Nah... of course he can win. It'll just take a little more time. :)

Steph

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He's spoiled and he's overprotecting his ownership of you. He fears someone else getting your attention. He just needs some discipline and you need to be alpha and teach him to follow. You're doing the right thing by keeping him back for now.

If he had been abused or neglected, he would have shown signs of it all along from the start plus most responsible animal adoption shelters try to correct problems like that before making their dogs adoptable and at the very least, they try to match them up with owners who can handle problems.

I have nine dogs, Steph. They don't always behave 100 percent of the time, but since reading Cesar Millan's books, there is much more order and harmony in the land and you CAN do it yourself. Of course, most professional dog trainers don't want you to think that because it doesn't serve their business interests. Obedience school might be a good start and they are usually offered through your communitee activities and are cheap. I'd check that if nothing else.

When you have as many as I do, most of which are someone's rejects because of these very problems, your bound to have issues arise. Milo just needs to have his boundaries established and he'll be fine.

Delene

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Yeah, I know that I baby him too much. I can't help it, I love him so much! I'd had so much trouble being happy in the past few years, and just looking at him makes me smile. So yeah, I spoil him with attention and affection. Not to mention, I do keep to myself, so it's usually just he and I.

I think that this holiday break will be good. He'll have a few other people in the house to follow around, and hopefully he'll realize that I'm not the end-all-be-all of life. :)

Steph

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I did some more research on amazon for Milo's issue. Caesar Milan has a training dvd specifically related to Milo's problem: aggression. Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Whisperer-Cesar-Millan-Aggression/dp/B000EGDAMK/ref=pd_sim_d_2

Hope this is the answer.

Edited by GerrysGalwayGirl

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I did some more research on amazon for Milo's issue. Caesar Milan has a training dvd specifically related to Milo's problem: aggression. Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Whisperer-Cesar-Millan-Aggression/dp/B000EGDAMK/ref=pd_sim_d_2

Hope this is the answer.

Thanks a bunch!!

I think today proved to me that I'm the big problem in what Milo's up to. I just got back from taking him for a walk in the park. We had people walking, jogging, and biking past us from the front and behind, and the only time he so much as barked at anyone was when I pulled on his leash to back him further away from the people.

At first, I was telling him verbally to sit and stay while people would pass us. I had a good grip on the leash incase he decided to jump, but no tension in the line. He sat like a perfect puppy and hardly even looked as they walked, jogged, or biked by. After a couple successful tests with him sitting, I moved on to the walking test. I kept him on a short leash, holding it at my hip (so it was my speed and direction pulling on him, not me physically pulling on the leash), and just walked on as people came by us. No problems.

We were walking past two men at one point, and I got nervous that he was going to jump at them, so I pulled on the leash to pull him further back, to get off the path, and that was when he jumped and barked at them. So, it's definitely how I react to people approaching that is setting him off. From now on, I just need to keep calm, and so will he!!

He also greeted a couple of dogs that came walking by us, including having a nice little tussle with a golden retriever named Rex. :) He does love other dogs so!!

A good walk, a good day, and I think we both learned a lot.

Steph

Edited by AbandonThought

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Steph, I got to thinking about what you described and one of Cesar's philosophies. That is you may be exibiting some "passive" behavior when you'r around some people, it seems particularly males. Women sometimes do this instinctively. He then feels you are no longer in the "alpha" position and is taking over. Dogs behavior on pack mentality and someone has to be in charge for the well being of the pack. You need to assert with him constantly that you are in charge and you are always the alpha dog in the pack.

Cesar's books will really help you and the added bonus to Cesar's way is that he teaches people, especially women, how to be more assertive and "take charge". Calm assertive is his moto to get submissive behavior from Gerry....er....I mean Milo. :D

Delene

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Oh, I definitely don't think that's the case. I'm a naturally assertive individual, around males or females. I think it's just that I tense up because I'm expecting a reaction from Milo. Then, because of my tension, he perceives a threatening situation and attacks what he thinks is the source of the tension. So, it's a circular thing.

If I'm having trouble with anything it's not the assertiveness, it's the calmness. (I watched a bunch of Dog Whisperer today). I just need to keep my cool and trust Milo. If I do that, then he'll trust me. :)

Steph

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Oh, I definitely don't think that's the case. I'm a naturally assertive individual, around males or females. I think it's just that I tense up because I'm expecting a reaction from Milo. Then, because of my tension, he perceives a threatening situation and attacks what he thinks is the source of the tension. So, it's a circular thing.

If I'm having trouble with anything it's not the assertiveness, it's the calmness. (I watched a bunch of Dog Whisperer today). I just need to keep my cool and trust Milo. If I do that, then he'll trust me. :)

Steph

Really, Steph? Who was that girl some time back who wrote about getting up the courage to go in to a convenience store to get a lottery ticket? Maybe that wasn't you. My bad. :kisswink:

Delene

Edited by GBPhanatic

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Oh, I definitely don't think that's the case. I'm a naturally assertive individual, around males or females. I think it's just that I tense up because I'm expecting a reaction from Milo. Then, because of my tension, he perceives a threatening situation and attacks what he thinks is the source of the tension. So, it's a circular thing.

If I'm having trouble with anything it's not the assertiveness, it's the calmness. (I watched a bunch of Dog Whisperer today). I just need to keep my cool and trust Milo. If I do that, then he'll trust me. :)

Steph

Really, Steph? Who was that girl some time back who wrote about getting up the courage to go in to a convenience store to get a lottery ticket? Maybe that wasn't you. My bad. :kisswink:

Delene

Haha, I get what you're saying, but that was anxiety, had nothing to do with assertiveness!

Steph

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Doesn't he just look angelic when he's sleeping? Love how he pulls his back legs up in front of his front legs. :D

Posted Image

Sorry for the random cuteness. :)

Steph

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Excuse me for laughing but that is the cutest picture of Milo.

OK Steph, I think you have nailed what is happening. Dogs feel their owners tensions. When you feel tense so does Milo and he feels he has to take over your protection. When you are relaxed he is relaxed. I think you are moving in the right direction. You need him to understand you don't need his protection and he will not feel the need to step in. A good start. Keep reading up on the problem and get pointers from those who can help through books, dvds, etc. I really believe Milo's problem can be corrected since it has manifested itself long after you got him. It also shows me that Milo has really bonded with you. Now you have to make him understand that he is not your protector. Then all will be good. Hang in there sweetie. This can be done.

~HUGS~ Kathy

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Excuse me for laughing but that is the cutest picture of Milo.

OK Steph, I think you have nailed what is happening. Dogs feel their owners tensions. When you feel tense so does Milo and he feels he has to take over your protection. When you are relaxed he is relaxed. I think you are moving in the right direction. You need him to understand you don't need his protection and he will not feel the need to step in. A good start. Keep reading up on the problem and get pointers from those who can help through books, dvds, etc. I really believe Milo's problem can be corrected since it has manifested itself long after you got him. It also shows me that Milo has really bonded with you. Now you have to make him understand that he is not your protector. Then all will be good. Hang in there sweetie. This can be done.

~HUGS~ Kathy

We've been talking about this the whole time, but I'm going to finally post. I don't think Milo needs training like we were thinking. I think Kathy and others are right. Buy the book they're talking about, maybe a DVD or whatever and RELAX. Don't anticipate he's going to be bad or he will be. I think getting through the vacation with your family will help.

Love you and your puppy. :wuv:

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Calm assertive is his moto to get submissive behavior from Gerry....er....I mean Milo.

Gerry? Submissive? I don't ever see that happening... Well, maybe when he's home visiting his mum. She probably knows ways to get him to be submissive with housework. That's probably where it ends.

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Calm assertive is his moto to get submissive behavior from Gerry....er....I mean Milo.

Gerry? Submissive? I don't ever see that happening... Well, maybe when he's home visiting his mum. She probably knows ways to get him to be submissive with housework. That's probably where it ends.

I think a good balance of assertiveness and submissiveness is always warranted in most cases! It's just knowing when each are most useful. :cunning:

My thought processes must have drifted off track slightly when talk of collars, jerking on leashes, etc., was mentioned. :funnyup:

Delene

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Not the best news from Raleigh...

Milo bit my Dad on the hand today. My Dad had been ignoring Milo as per my instruction (not reaching for him to pet him or anything), other than feeding him a treat when they first met. Still, you can see the way Milo watches him that he feels threatened by my Dad. Today my Dad was walking back and forth in the kitchen as he was making a sandwich for lunch, and Milo bit him.

I feel so guilty, and I'm so miserable. There are no words.

I made an appointment for Milo with the animal behaviorist here, though it's not until the 27th. I'm hoping she can bump it up. Until then, I'm going to be keeping a close eye on him, to the point of not letting him follow my Dad when he walks about. I guess that's all I can do, and I hope it's enough. I don't want to have to put Milo in the crate anytime my Dad is home. That would be miserable for all concerned.

I'm about at the end of my rope here, and I've been crying off and on all day since it happened. If you pray, please pray for me and Milo.

Steph

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Steph, I take it you were not in the room at the time so Milo was not protecting you. If that is true then we have a problem with "men" and Milo. He was an abused dog by a man. He doesn't trust men and he just met your dad so he is leery of him. It fits. Ask the "behaviorist" what this is all about with Milo before he starts charging you for rehabilitation. This may not be a lesson or two turn around for Milo. I hope and pray it can be an easy fix but I will be honest with you. This may take longer than you were hoping for. If you are going to Glasgow with Milo next year he could have a real problem in flight, before and after, from being handled by strangers. His life will be turned upside down again which could slow his progress. Have you thought about having him wear a mouth guard while at your parents home. It will prevent him from biting and you won't have to cage him. You could use it while walking outside too. The important thing is to keep him from biting or else he will get a record. You know where that leads. I will pray for you both sweetie.

~HUGS~ Kathy

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Thanks Kathy. I was in the room at the time, but you're right, it was not about protecting me. Though he's been fine with some men, my Dad is a big man (heavyset) and has a deep booming voice. I think that was adding to Milo's anxiety.

I kept him on a leash for the rest of the evening yesterday to ensure he didn't have a chance to go for my Dad again. That was the drill for this morning/afternoon as well. It was stressful making sure to keep ahold of him the whole time, but much less stressful than trying to just keep an eye on him instead. I bought a muzzle today, and that worked quite well. He doesn't like it, but he's putting up with it (meaning he can't get it off, and eventually stopped trying). I hope that in wearing the muzzle until the behaviorist comes he'll relax some and realize that even though he can't "protect himself" no one is going to mess with him; he has nothing to fear from my Dad.

I know it may not be a short process. And in the end, if I have to muzzle him when I have company, that's the not the end of the world. It's just so much more inconvenient now when I'm here to spend time with my family, and they couldn't really be in the same room together until the muzzle. It's almost a non-issue when I'm at home in NOLA, as I have visitors so rarely.

Anyway, thanks again for listening Kathy. Today was infinitely better than yesterday, though the whole thing is still stressful. But we're working through it, and in the end it'll be okay. :)

Steph

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If Milo was following your Dad around, he's not afraid of him. He's still making a power play. You need to take him in hand, hold him on leash while around you father and the moment he makes a motion that's aggressive, snap him out of it! If you don't it will get worse. I really don't think he's fearful of males. He used to being the alpha around you and when there's another person around you who threatens his position, he's going to try to put them in their place!

I've had dogs all my life. I have rescued troubled dogs and aggressive dogs. With just a little bit of patience and Cesar's books, it was amazing how quickly they responded. My dogs know the minute I'm in the room, I'm in charge.

One major thing you have to make sure you are not doing and that is over coddling and talking to milo like he's a child. When a dog hears your voice pitch high, like most women's, to them it's like a howl of excitement and then they get excited. You need to stay calm and in control of him. Deepen your voice if you need to when you are correcting him. Never hit or yell but be firm and assertive. I think you can do this. You have to remember that even though you love Milo and you want to bestow a lot of attention on him because he's your baby and he has had a hard life, you can't over coddle him. Just like with a child, you can spoil a dog and make them difficult to discipline.

Delene

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