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Gerard Butler GALS

One More for the GALS -Shadow Company


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Janet - thank you for a very well thought out post. It contained many good and interesting points.

I don't think anyone here was saying Gerry should not have opinions about any and every subject. He is a very intelligent man, and very passionate I gather, so I'm sure he has strong opinions on just about every subject, including politics. I think Holly's post came closest to explaining why we hope he doesn't take a public stand on those opinions - it is because SOME fans are going to be hurt, disappointed and/or angered by them, and we don't want that for THEM. So it isn't that Gerry can't or shouldn't have strong opinions, and it isn't even that he shouldn't state them, but rather we just hope that he does not so that those who strongly feel differently won't have that "punch in the stomach" reaction to finding out someone you admire and care a great deal for is standing for something you stand against. Some people are capable of continuing to support and care for someone even if they have a strongly differing opinon (as Barb said about members of her own family) but some absolutely cannot. There are people who would immediately tune out and turn off anything to do with Gerry if he started making statements about his politics.

During the 2004 election I was a member of another fan site for a completely inane reality TV show, but the political "discussions" (which bordered on war) that went on there were brutal. The most difficult part is that it continually came down to some people on EACH side intimating that those on the other side were in some way "stupid, ill-informed, evil, heartless, idiotic..." you get my drift. It became impossible to have just an interesting discussion because some people just can't "agree to disagree" and would start slinging insults, often veiled ones, but still you know when someone is implying that you must have lost far too many brain cells if you hold to your own position, or that anyone who believes as you do must have no heart and no soul. THAT is what we do NOT want to see happen here. Not now, not ever. I don't think there is ANY subject more inflammatory than politics. Most people can be quite tolerant of the religious beliefs of others even if they aren't the same, yet get two supporters of opposing political ideologies on a discussion thread and all Hell breaks loose!

I think I'll go home and pour myself a big ol' glass of Gerry Juice now!

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Here I've been all outraged and worried about the kid soldiers we've been sending over there, and others are going and putting their lives on the line just for money? Like it's a whole industry? Omigod. This documentary is important. Thanks, GB, for participating and bringing this to our attention.

I think this has been going on for many centuries.

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The question is, are these guys doing this just for the money? Or for other more personal motivations? Perhaps they are just bored, going on middle aged men who do not qualify for the military, and who want some adventure and a challenge. Or perhaps they believe in the cause.

I hope this documentary sheds some light on these issues.

Swan

Edited by Swansong
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Susan, you are one SMART woman...

OK, Gerry, now it's MY turn to talk about MY mum. She's 83, and has said many times in recent years that the "agree to disagree" notion regarding politics, or people on opposing sides politically, has actually become somewhat of a rarity these days. People of varying political ideologies used to debate and brainstorm, and listen to each other. Not so anymore, really. It seems that they're talking more AT each other instead of WITH each other. Just an observation, since it's been brought up a few times in this thread. It's unfortunate, really. Not sure why it's happening, though.

Oh, and Planet, Susan~Sporran, and all you others, I've really enjoyed reading your posts on this thread. Very interesting.

Patti

Edited by bestillmyhearrt
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The gest of it all really is

No Matter your Polictics or your Religious belief's... (and as an ex Navy wife I say this with my concern and prayers for all our Military Men and Woman.)

War Is An Abomination... and those that involve themselves for profit seem every bit the same.

There is no other way to say it .

Perhaps our world has become more about money that about Human Justice. That's the pain of it for all of us.

Bringing that to light is.. or should be a Good thing. You don't have to agree with it..Just so you are AWARE of it.

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The gest of it all really is

No Matter your Polictics or your Religious belief's... (and as an ex Navy wife I say this with my concern and prayers for all our Military Men and Woman.)

War Is An Abomination... and those that involve themselves for profit seem every bit the same.

There is no other way to say it .

Perhaps our world has become more about money that about Human Justice. That's the pain of it for all of us.

Bringing that to light is.. or should be a Good thing. You don't have to agree with it..Just so you are AWARE of it.

Your opinion is duly noted, Micky.

I am also an ex-Navy wife. My husband retired after 22 years of active service. He is also a war veteran. I am glad I only got him during his last 7 years, those 3 that he was on board ship were tough ones.

I really don't know much about the mercenary thing. Which is why I ordered this documentary (for Gerry's voice as well, I'm not going to lie...) The director has stated that he tried to make a non-slanted documentary about these men and why they are there. It should be coming today, I believe. I will comment again after I've seen it.

And I agree, war IS an abomination. That is not to say that I think the military men are wasting their time.

Patti

Edited by bestillmyhearrt
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Dear Ladies,

Thank you for all the feedback! Marrisa8, Suz, Swansong, Imaforty+, many thanks for your support and welcoming words. Webberphan – thanks for the one-line wake up call. And Susan S. – you fabulous mother lioness, you! Thanks for the check and balance.

I know my post may appear well thought out, but it wasn’t so much…I majored in Journalism and we were trained to think and type in real time, writing concisely and directly – which can be dangerous! I’ve also ingrained working with the rhythm of words, etc., but I never was good at being brief. (did ya notice?) Sometimes when I write I get worked up about something, then once I’m emotionally hooked I get in the zone and out it comes. I notice later that I don’t tend to mince words, (wince) and I can see why Susan’s red flags went up. (this email, BTW, I have thought about)

That first paragraph alone was pretty strong and could be read a number of different ways, inflections and implications. It starts with a Cary Grant take off – Judy Judy Judy - you know? Trying to keep things light. I don’t mean to attack or discount anyone personally, but I do stand by my viewpoint, subject to amendment in light of new information. I offer my sincere apologies to anyone was offended or had their feelings hurt.

In afterthought, the neutered milquetoast analogy of Gerry is quite the sight if you actually try to visualize it. Think Spongebob Squarepants, replace the sponge with a piece of French Toast that looks like Gerry’s head (it’s best to stick with 2D animation here) and see him slipping in and out of different women’s heads, coming out with a Stepford smile on his face. “It’s been a pleasure to serve you,” he says warmly to each, in just the way they need to hear it. Then he hands them a glass of GerryJuice and moves on. God I love it when words turn into a visual...anything for a laugh.

Anyway, this is why I usually try to keep a lid on it. I know my frame of reference can be...different. I always go back later to reread what I've written and the other side of my Gemini nature tortures me endlessly on why I should not have said this or that, or what I left out. Then the side that wrote it kicks back in and says, “No, no, it’s good! You were inspired!” Inspired to what, I ask, as I continue to vacillate in-between.

Webberphan, you made your point with one quiet sentence. Yeow, I got it, but I can take it. Ah, yes, of course that’s been going on forever…I know…it’s all over the movies and television as well. I have studied it and I dislike war, and the reasons for it, so much I blocked it out, perhaps. Didn’t connect the dots of historic wars and the inevitable current upgrade in war tactics. Of course it would go corporate - they run everything else. Assasinations, mercenaries, security guards, FBI, CIA, Special Forces, MI6, Mossad, the CFR, the Bilderbergers, the Illuminati...every time I read Shadow Company I think Shadow Government. Nonetheless, I got caught with my naïveté hanging out, writing my first reaction without thinking it through. One thing I do believe – the Light (God) always wins out over the dark forces in the end. He sure lets the game drag out, though. More opportunites to grow.

Still, this is no script or game, this is a real war. At least these guys volunteer with their eyes open, figuring they are good enough to beat the odds. Maybe we should be grateful - private enterprise for the defense of the rest of us. Six on and three off…hope it’s worth it to them. Hope the guy who originally wrote the emails is alive and well, and God bless him for writing them. Swansong’s questions as to their true motivation are very pertinent. This works for the Administration, too, because there’s no protest against the draft, fewer angry parents who lost their sons, very little news coverage about this, even on NPR, which seems to talk about nothing but this war. (although I might get caught again here; I got disillusioned with our news establishment years ago and rarely watch what too often seems like propaganda, diversions or fluff. They often don’t even ask the (obvious!) questions I was taught to ask in school – they seem more PR/ratings slanted.)

It is interesting to note that an independent documentary is telling this story. All in all, this has been a good discussion. The perspective from the navy wives, bestillmyheart and Mickey, is also much appreciated.

Susan S, thank you so much for your own thoughtful reply. So sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience on that other fansite; it sounds really awful and nasty, but I totally understand how it could happen... This is my first forum experience like this, so again, I may be naïve, but I will hold the vision that this group of people are more enlightened and we will not go there. You yourself will prevent it from happening – you wrote a great post.

Thanks once more to all you fine ladies for the support and the critique – it all helps one grow. ? (Y’all better hurry up and read P.S. I Love You to get these “one” jokes!)

Party On in the Light!

Planet

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Planet...glad to see that wasn't your last post!!! ::D:

I have not watched the documentary yet... From what I have read they are trying not to lean to any particular side. Either way you look at it, I am sure it is going be upsetting for some.

When I checked out the Shadow Company website/trailer,whom I did notice was one of the men in the film.

Robert Young Pelton, I have read several of his books. He has traveled extensively through war-torn countries and it would be interesting to hear his take . He usually tries to give a balanced point of view, from what I have read in in books anyway.

I know the subject matter is touchy, but I am still looking forward to watching it!!!

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I think that there will be spoilers to follow:

Okay, I have seen Shadow Company- twice already and no, most of these guys are not immoral bastards.

The ones that Nick interviewed were articulate, intelligent businessmen with a strong set of what is right and what is wrong in their own hearts. Yes, they are doing it for the money, but if they do not agree with reasoning behind the contract (i.e. if they are to help with a coup in say, Sierra Leone... then they will turn

the job down- great money or not). Some of these men are retired soldiers, from special ops or the navy seals- some are professional soldiers of fortune.

Gerry is the voice of James Ashcroft who was in Iraq and speaking from his diary of his time there. James, like many others has taken a job there in order to make money. And the money is great- about $1,000 a day. Of course, these guys are targets just like the American soldiers. Insurgents booby trap roadsides, their SUV's and anything else that they can shoot at. They are there to do a job and apparantly, according to Shadow Company some of them even train US soldiers when they arrive in Baghdad. Of course this was all new to me, and rather than being shocked, I found I was eager to learn what Nick put forth on his documentary. Soldiers of Fortune, mercenaries, security contractors....they are doing a job over there, a job that there is a market for. I cannot say that I found any of these guys reprehensible, or bloodthirsty- just looking to make a living at what they were trained to do. And its a very profitable living- as long as they live long enough to spend it.

Donna

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