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What if...

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Okay, here's some questions/thoughts that may change the entire movie/play...nah, maybe not.

What if...

Raoul (however it's spelled...) never followed Christine to the graveyard?

Raoul never went to the cavern to find Christine?

Christine never met Raoul?? :cunning:

Thought of another one: What if the managers of the opera populair followed the phantom's demands...then boucquet (not that I liked him) would die...nevermind...makes no sense. :bonk:

the guards...nevermind, I won't present that one, too sad...

If I think of others, I'll add on to this post.

Edited by Gerry admirer

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Interesting questions. Of course if any of the scenarios played out differently we'd probably have a very different story.

Okay, here's some questions/thoughts that may change the entire movie/play...nah, maybe not.

What if...

Raoul (however it's spelled...) never followed Christine to the graveyard?

I'm curious about this one myself. Just what did the Phantom have in mind? Was he going to kidnap Christine or just talk to her?

While I love this film so much, I realize that Christine and the Phantom never really talk -- yes I know it's a musical but part of me wishes that there'd been a little additional dialogue maybe where they actually talked to each other. It seems for the most part the only time they really say anything to each other is in the final lair scene where she tells him his soul is distorted. Alot of the problems in the Christine/Phantom relationship are that they don't talk. Though I am guessing they do in the Leroux book, which I haven't read yet.

Raoul never went to the cavern to find Christine?

The Phantom might have tried to escape with Christine and I'm guessing she would have struggled. He didn't have Raoul to blackmail her with.

Christine never met Raoul?? :cunning:

Oh we'd definitely have a completely different story here. He might not have ever revealed himself and continued to pretend to be the Angel of Music. Or if he did explain who he really was, maybe she would have grown to love him.

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Guest Pilar

Yes....and if Christine and Erik had a chance to explore their love...imagine what their "first time" together would have been like. :love:

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Oh Gawd, Pilar, there you go!

I agree with the poster above Pilar. Erik and Christine really don't talk at all until the final lair scene. There might have been more chemistry had there been more dialogue and Christine would have realized what a man the Phantom was and explored their....passion. Thank you for giving me some fodder for, oh gawd, Pilar, look what you started.....a fanfic?

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wrong thread!

Edited by Swansong

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Guest Pilar

Oh Gawd, Pilar, there you go!

I agree with the poster above Pilar. Erik and Christine really don't talk at all until the final lair scene. There might have been more chemistry had there been more dialogue and Christine would have realized what a man the Phantom was and explored their....passion. Thank you for giving me some fodder for, oh gawd, Pilar, look what you started.....a fanfic?

Sweetheart, when people read those beautiful words, GALS will be cryin' a RIVER! Believe me....you've GOT him! :wuv:

Edited by Pilar

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I like to think what if Meg followed Erik through the broken mirrors.

If Erik was honest with Christine did not pretend to be her father or an angel.

If he was not obsessed with her then things would be different.

Plus on the roof she told Raoul that Erik had hardly a face at all.

In Gerry's movie I want Meg to follow Erik.

I adore Raoul in that movie.

In Charles Dance's Movie I wish more than anything that Christine would have chosen

Erik over Philippe. That Christine and Erik's relationship had no deception.He just only had to remain anonymous for his own safety. She never unmasks Erik. He takes it off himself.At the end she removes it and kisses him goodbye.

I won't tell too much so I won't spoil it.

In Lon Chaney's version. Erik is scary. Christine fears him terribly.

I don't think I answered you questions.

I think I just told my what ifs. If I offend you tell me and I will edit.

Love,

Tracy

P.S. I love Pilar with Erik in London Town.

Edited by JustCallMeTracy

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Now I will answer the questions you asked.

Okay, here's some questions/thoughts that may change the entire movie/play...nah, maybe not.

What if...

Raoul (however it's spelled...) never followed Christine to the graveyard?

Erik would have either scared her to death with his deception or she would have been glad to see him.

Raoul never went to the cavern to find Christine?

She would have remained Erik's prisoner or she would have chose to be happy.

Christine never met Raoul?? :cunning:

Raoul would have been a non issue.

Thought of another one: What if the managers of the opera populair followed the phantom's demands...then boucquet (not that I liked him) would die...nevermind...makes no sense. :bonk

:

In my fan fic Buquet is fired for Lewd behavior. Erik killing breaks my heart. I made him a fornicator instead of a murderer.

the guards...nevermind, I won't present that one, too sad...

In my fan fic the Guards are Insane Asylum Orderlies accompanied by a few police.

Raoul after he releases Christine begs them to leave him alone.

If I think of others, I'll add on to this post.

Okie Dokie.

:funnyup:

Bless your heart.

Now Pilar even Meg wants Erik with Pilar in London Town. Edited by JustCallMeTracy

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Guest Pilar
Does any writer besides me find Erik to be a very feisty and demanding muse? LOL! I swear, if I don't write him for a few days, he yells in my head through gritted teeth...."Write, woman, write!" God bless him. Edited by Pilar

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:funnyup: :funnyup:

I'm glad he does Pil, what would LT be like without him? I hate the thought!

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I think everyone of us, especially those of us in the later part of our lives like I am, wonder what if...??? However, the movie is finished, over and done with. We can't change it. But we can have our own Phantasies about what may have happened to Eric afterwards. I can't help but think if it had ended with Christine going with the Phantom, it would have lost a lot of credibility. For some reason, sad as it is, it fits. Each time I watch, I see something different, and I am beginning to find more sympathy for Raoul. He only loved her, and he had no idea how the Phantom felt until the ending in the lair-IMHO. By then, I think whatever Christine may have felt. she felt it no longer. In fact, as she stated, "Her tears had become tears of hate." She also called him a pitiful creature of darkness. This I definitely disagree with. His lair was well lit, had many candles, and he did not live there 24/7. He did go out into the opera house, and also outside.

He felt he was condemned to that life, but saw Christine as a possible saviour. I think she was an immature kid who felt guilty when she could not return his love. Where she got the idea that he "Had to kill a thousand men" I can't guess. Up until then, the count was two, and in my book, both were justified in many ways. When I do my ideas about the future, I feel that Piangi was not really dead, but had fainted when he put the rope around his neck. I like to give him some leeway, since we all love him so much :wuv: Also, he did not kill the coachman, only hit him over the head. another thing to ponder.

Spartandax

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What if...

Raoul (however it's spelled...) never followed Christine to the graveyard?

Christine would have been lured back to the Phantom under his spell and he would have stolen her away.

Raoul never went to the cavern to find Christine?

She would have remained the Phantom's prisoner, until maybe one day he came to the realization that it was cruel to force her to live a life underground against her will, and he would have set her free.

Christine never met Raoul??

Well...the entire story crumbles without Raoul. Because without him, Christine doesn't have a love interest. Without him, the Phantom does not have a reason to be jealous. Without him, the Phantom couldn't see what true love and sacrifice look like. Without him, the Phantom would not have made the decision to let Christine go. Without him, the Phantom doesn't learn what it means to be selfless and noble. And of course without him, there is no survivor to look back on the events that took place.

Edited by Luv

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I actually wondered about how pretty little thing Meg, all girlie, - suddenly wore dark trousers and frilly shirt as she picks up the mask at the end of the movie... Why? Or am I getting senile and have false memories... :S

*Ponder, ponder*

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I believe, EM, that Meg was wearing a costume from the Don Juan opera. The bigger question I always had was how did her pants dry instantaneously? :D

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Very interesting discussion is taking place here...

I´ve always wondered this "what ifs" also, it´s a story that I love long before the movie, and then, with Gerry making the Phantom... just when I thought it couldn´t get better...OMG!

But here´s my big what if contribution:

... the story took place in a modern time, with all the plastic surgery resources we have today? Erik did have money, so...? what do you think?

I thought on this cause I met an old college friend who came to be a plastic surgeon, right after I´ve seen POTO that weekend. He asked me what good movie I could recomend to him (he knows my cinema passion) and I couldn´t help wonder... certainly we would not have all the beautiful drama of this great story. The tonic of our times, in oposition to more romantic - and difficult - times as vitorian, is that things are too easily and quickly resolved, no leaving time to feel things deeply and reflect about their meaning.

I´m not sure if I made myself clear on this.

I´m curious to hear from you...

Hugs,

Adrix.

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Yes....and if Christine and Erik had a chance to explore their love...imagine what their "first time" together would have been like. :love:

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN???????

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I believe that it's all relative- look at how people strive for visual perfection today- to the point of starving and getting so much plastic surgery they are unrecognizable- I swear, if Janice Dickinson gets one more facelift, she'll be a bearded lady...

Growing up in AZ was a lot like growing up in CA. I experienced a lot of pressure to be perfect, and people there are extremely image conscious- the things you see in tv shows about peer pressure, etc., are all very real.

Anyway, the problem is, no matter how seemingly insignificant a person's flaw seems to others, to that person, it can be extremely emotionally destructive, as in Erik's case. Regardless of what other people think, physical flaws can be so devastating to a person, that those flaws taint how they see the world, as if creating inner flaws in one's personality- think of it as unconsciously becoming ugly on the inside to match the outside. Of course this all has to do with each person's focus in life... some people couldn't care less, and go on with their lives, while others are completely consumed by the "monster" they have created in their own minds.

I have battled feelings of flawedness, the "inadequacy" of being imperfect for most of my life, particularly from the effects of illness. I have learned to overcome a lot of it, but I still hold myself back in many ways because of my physical appearance. And, like Erik, even if I had plastic surgery that miraculously fixed every flaw, I still have to deal with the emotional wreckage those flaws created in my heart, mind, and soul- If I were perfect on the outside tomorrow, I'd still be F*ed up on the inside for a long time- how we think people see us is a very important factor in how we live our lives, who we become as people, how we move within the world, and whether we decide to care about that aspect or not, it still affects each of us on some level...

SOoooooooo, I don't know that the story would change all that much- or would it exist at all?

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There was nothing more moving and beautiful then when Christine kissed Erik and put her hand on his distorted face. Acceptance of who you are on the outside as well as on the inside, shows true love in it's purest form.

D

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There are way too many people out there who care about how they look on the outside. I sometimes get caught up in it a bit. I know that I'm not that beautiful, and I sometimes wish I was more beautiful. However, who wants to take the time to put on make up and lipstick? NOT ME! I'm natural, and I'm proud of that. Yes, I'm not Miss Beautiful, but who cares? I rather have a man love me for my intelligence and my creativity than how I look on the outside. After all, physical beauty is fading, but inner beauty can last a lifetime.

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There are way too many people out there who care about how they look on the outside. I sometimes get caught up in it a bit. I know that I'm not that beautiful, and I sometimes wish I was more beautiful. However, who wants to take the time to put on make up and lipstick? NOT ME! I'm natural, and I'm proud of that. Yes, I'm not Miss Beautiful, but who cares? I rather have a man love me for my intelligence and my creativity than how I look on the outside. After all, physical beauty is fading, but inner beauty can last a lifetime.

Here, here! Beautifully said!

D

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I have suffered most of my life with weight problems and know how much the snide remarks can hurt. Now i have lost a majority of it but I still have severe health problems from arthritis and can't walk and suffer pain daily. However, I learned a long time ago that you must look inside a person to really see the true person within. With plastic surgery and makeup, body sculpting, etc, almost anyone can make their outside beautiful. But if one is not beautiful in their soul, all of the extras are for naught. :erik: Poor Erik, he only needed someone to love him in spite of his face. I do not blame him for a lot of what he did. it's amazing that he could treat Christine with such tenderness, even after he realized she loved Raoul. He certainly had some good in his heart. IMHO :hearts:

Spartandax :phantom:

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well.. poor erik l: the world is so quick to judge him.

hmm i need a quotee

okay, more than one

"I gave you my music; made your song take wing. And now how you've repaid me - denied me and betrayed me. He was bound to love you when he heard you sing, Christine! You will curse the day you did not do, all that the Phantom asked of you!"

^ see, this is one thing that makes me sympathize for him.

she really did lead him on. and he really did help her. even if.. he was prtending to be her fathers spirit.

but the Angel of Music is a voice that comes to you and inspres your voice, and Phantom reallly was hers.

This is the one i was looking for [:

"This face, which earned a mother's fear and loathing. A mask, my first unfeeling scrap of clothing. Pity comes too late, turn around and face your fate, an eternity of this before your eyes."

^ ]]]: he needed love, he found it in christine.

poor guuuy.

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